Unattributed, Possibly Livonia 1/24 Thaler

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Author	Replies: 4 / Views: 405
oriole Pillar of the Community Canada 5239 Posts	Posted 12/29/2023 8:05 pm 1.00 grams, 19 mm diameter It looks very much like a 1/24 thaler from Livonia except that the letters don't match. Possibly not prior to 1600. Report this Post to the Staff

paralyse Bedrock of the Community United States 12057 Posts	Posted 12/29/2023 9:27 pm Dreipölker (3 Gröscher) Brandenburg-Prussia, Georg Wilhelm, (16)22 - on coin as ZZ Obv: DIEV & MON DROICT - fourfold arms and scepter on shield, denomination 3 Gröscher at bottom of shield Rev: GE WI MAR BR S R I EL P D - Imperial orb, denomination 1/24 Thaler in orb Member ANA - EAC - TNA - SSDC - CCT #890 "Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis Report this Post to the Staff
oriole Pillar of the Community Canada 5239 Posts	Posted 12/30/2023 06:28 am Thanks, @paralyse Report this Post to the Staff
january1may Pillar of the Community Russian Federation 5172 Posts	Posted 12/30/2023 07:24 am Quote: Obv: DIEV & MON DROICT Indeed so, but I wonder why did Georg Wilhelm of Brandenburg and Prussia use the English royal motto (in French) on his coins. I couldn't find any English connection. Report this Post to the Staff
paralyse Bedrock of the Community United States 12057 Posts	Posted 12/30/2023 10:42 am The German equivalent is more or less "Gott mit uns" which was first used by Frederick I (also of Brandenburg-Prussia) in 1701. The motto dates back to the early Norman conquests, but Henry III was the first to bring the phrase to prominence. I would expect it came to the Hohenzollerns via their early grants from Henry V and VI, likely starting around the time of Conrad I, via the Franconian Nuremberg branch. Brandenburg was brought into the House by the Franconian Hohenzollerns ca. 1415 with Frederick VI (Frederick I, Margrave-Elector of Brandenburg-Prussia) That's all speculation on my part. The use is extremely unusual, I agree, without historical precedent and not repeated elsewhere before or after until it was adopted by the Hanoverians along with another well-known Norman French phrase - "Honi soit qui mal y pense" - and the German "Ich dien" (I serve.) Member ANA - EAC - TNA - SSDC - CCT #890 "Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis Report this Post to the Staff
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