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Are There Ancients With A Zodiac Symbol?

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Gallienus's Avatar
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 Posted 02/12/2024  4:56 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Gallienus to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I'm interested in Ancients which depict one of the symbols of the Zodiac on the obv or rev. These can be either Romans, Greek Imperials, or regular Greek.

I know for example that Augustus Caesar featured Capricorns on the rx of some of his denarii and cistophorii. I'm looking for other preferably clearly struck Zodiac creatures on Ancients.

I've tried Googling but seem to only find modern fantasy coins. I really should look thru some of my reference books more diligently.
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Spence's Avatar
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 Posted 02/12/2024  5:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@gall, I used the CCF search function and found at least one prior thread that might be of interest. Here is a link:

http://goccf.com/t/424318#3655435

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Pillar of the Community
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 Posted 02/12/2024  5:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add livingwater to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
There are some Roman Provincial coins with them. There's a few on Vcoins.com. There are full Zodiacs on some Alexandria coins but I think they are scarce to rare. Here is RPC web database for some.

https://rpc.ashmus.ox.ac.uk/search/browse?q=zodiac

Are-There-Ancients-With-A-Zodiac-Symbol?

Edited by livingwater
02/12/2024 5:38 pm
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 Posted 02/12/2024  6:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add classic_coin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I've tried Googling but seem to only find modern fantasy coins.

Then you're doing a poor job. I googled "Greek coin crab" and got this: https://art.thewalters.org/detail/1...r%20coinage.
"Roman coin weighing scales" gets you https://www.cointalk.com/threads/wh...itas.391819/
"Greek coin scorpion:" https://www.vcoins.com/en/stores/ma...Default.aspx
etc.

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Gallienus's Avatar
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 Posted 02/12/2024  6:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Gallienus to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
http://goccf.com/t/460046#3999965

Thanks for the bronze with the pix of the full Zodiac. This seems to be an exceptional specimen.

http://goccf.com/t/460046#3999989

Thanks for the links. The Tetradrachm of Akragas is what I was looking for. Is this the same as the crab used for the Zodiac tho?
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 Posted 02/12/2024  7:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add classic_coin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Is this the same as the crab used for the Zodiac tho?

Who's zodiac? The one from an Italian Book of Hours c 1475? Or a German manuscript from 1464? Or the one from 17th century Jaipur, India? Or from whatever specific book or artist you're looking at? It's the animal that matters, not really what it looks like based on a thousand years of interpretation.
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Sap's Avatar
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 Posted 02/12/2024  10:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
A great many "Zodiac animals" found on ancient coins are intended to represent the actual animals, rather than be zodiacal symbols. For example, the Capricorn might be intended to represent an actual mythological capricorn, rather than the star-sign.

Aries: a ram. Surprisingly difficult, but not too hard. And much easier if you're prepared to extend it to portraits of people wearing ram's-horns headgear.
Taurus: a bull. Relatively easy, as bulls were associated with royalty from earliest times and appear even on the earliest coins.
Gemini: the celestial twins, Castor and Pollux, appear very frequently on Roman coins.
Cancer: a crab. Akragas is the most common "crab city".
Leo: a lion. Like with the bull, a very very common image on coins. The coins of Miletus, with the lion looking over its shoulder at a star, are perhaps the best representatives.
Virgo: difficult to image a virgin, specifically, as opposed to a more generic woman. Perhaps the best representatives are goddesses like Vesta, or Athena Parthenos.
Libra: scales. Possible, but not easy. Scales being held by an allegorical figure like Justice are more common than scales sitting by themselves.
Scorpio: a scorpion. Perhaps the rarest of the Zodiac animals on coins. There is a popular "star sign coin" issued on Cyprus under Augustus, with a Capricorn on one side and a scorpion on the other.
Sagittarius: a centaur-archer. Centaurs are relatively common, centaur-archers much less so; that's a very specific iconography and when it appears is almost always linked to the astrological sign. I found just one doing a quick search, a colonial of Gordian III from Singara, Mesopotamia.
Capricorn: a water-goat. Not as hard to find as the centaur-archer, and more ambiguous as to whether or not it's intended as astrological symbolism.
Aquarius: the water-carrier. Can't say I've seen one of those on an ancient coin. This website suggests substituting a river-god coin.
Pisces: two fish. One fish is easy, two fish is harder, and yet even then when it appears it almost never has astrological significance.

For me, you need to move forwards in time into the Islamic series to get some core astrological coins. Under Islamic law, pictures of people and animals on coins were strictly forbidden as being "graven images", but some mediaeval Islamic rulers believed they'd found a loophole to make their coins more artistic by depicting their horoscopes. "The Sun in Leo" on a Seljuq silver dirham, and "The Centaur-archer shooting a dragon on its tail" on an Artuqid bronze dirham, representing the solar eclipse of AD 1201 in Sagittarius, are two of my favourites. The particularly "Islamic" treatment given to imagery of Mars is also worthy of mention. Then of course you have the "zodiac coins" of Mughal emperor Akbar over in India, but that's moving more towards the Modern era.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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