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Really Struggling On Jital ID? (Id: 13th Century Jital Khwarizmshahs, Ala Ad-Din Muhammad)

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 Posted 02/17/2024  2:29 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Fairfax98 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Really-Struggling-On-Jital-ID?-Id:-13th-Century-Jital-Khwarizmshahs,-Ala-Ad-Din-Muhammad

Hi there,

I just grabbed this online with no info given- I had spent about 2 hours trying to find a match prior to that to no success; so I figured why not ask you folks.

My best bet is possibly an Indian Princely State or maybe Persia/Afghanistan; the upper line of the legend seems to be an Indian (Devnagari?) script though, which I only noticed after quite a while, so this would limit it fairly specifically to South Asia.

Anyway, if anyone can lend a hand or some advice, I'd be very grateful. Tried a lot of searches/browsing indexes and found nothing so far.
Edited by Fairfax98
02/17/2024 3:54 pm
Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
1313 Posts
 Posted 02/17/2024  2:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add andyg to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It's a bit older than princely state, of a class of coins known as "Jitals", the right picture is actually of a horseman, I'm no expert in these though.
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 Posted 02/17/2024  3:07 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Fairfax98 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Andy, thanks a lot for your suggestion. To be honest, I really can't see a horseman here? Admittedly the only type of jital I'm used to seeing is the more standard bull/horseman combo- if anything, the right looks to me more likely to be some sort of Kufic/Arabic calligraphy- I've seen vaguely similar (but nothing quite the same) on some Persian coinage before, but really open to suggestions here.

I will take another look at Tye's Jitals catalogue (which is very helpfully available online, at least the photos which he's shared on another site) and see if I can find anything similar- but I have used that reference a few times before and not sure there is a good match.
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 Posted 02/17/2024  3:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Fairfax98 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Actually after heading back to Tye I find that there are some jitals made like this though have yet to find a perfect match- thanks very much and I will now change post title accordingly!!
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 Posted 02/18/2024  12:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Fairfax98 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Right, having had a spare hour I have just gone very carefully over Tye's catalogue. I focused much more on trying to find a match for the legend, which should be easier than matching up the horse- sadly none of the 400 jitals in Tye seem to be a match for this.

If anyone has some tips for identifying the legend (or even the script, which I think is probably arabic but am not certain), I'd be extremely grateful.

If anyone also knows of any other online resources/sites, other than Tye, which contain large indexes of jitals I'd also be very grateful. Thanks again Andy for helping to narrow down the search.
Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
1313 Posts
 Posted 02/18/2024  4:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add andyg to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
you could always try the search function on Zeno.

http://search.zeno.ru/index.php?v=0...&f=0&s=0&p=1
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 Posted 02/18/2024  4:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add january1may to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I've been using Numista, myself, and then supplementing with Zeno only once I had an idea where to look. By the looks of it, this is most likely a Khwarizmshah issue, but I hadn't been able to find an exact match yet.

But I hadn't realized that there were this few labelled jitals on Zeno, so I guess I can check out all of those too...
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Russian Federation
5172 Posts
 Posted 02/18/2024  5:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add january1may to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This seems to be a match: https://www.zeno.ru/showphoto.php?photo=152835

Khwarizmshahs, Ala ad-Din Muhammad, (probably) Qunduz mint.
(I'm not very confident of the mint, but this example is by far the best match out of the entire Zeno group.)

EDIT: even better match - https://www.numismall.com/collectio...empire-t-235
Same attribution as above, down to the mint.
Edited by january1may
02/18/2024 5:38 pm
New Member
United States
6 Posts
 Posted 02/19/2024  03:14 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Fairfax98 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hi January + Andy,

Thanks very much indeed for your tips and yes this is absolutely right. I have now been searching for other jitals for sale here (a few of which I've bought, posts to follow soon) and am making use of the Tye-Zeno combo which is working very well. Thanks a ton for all your help!!
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