1695 France Louis Xiv Quinzain Mintmark Mystery

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Author	Replies: 7 / Views: 539
MaximillianMike Valued Member United States 85 Posts	Posted 04/01/2024 9:11 pm Hi everyone. This quinzain is attributed to Gaudry #93 and is clearly in rough shape. It was originally a 15 denier that was overstruck and then counterstamped. I believe this is part of Louis XIV money reforms of the time. Nonetheless, it still shows a good amount of detail to leave me curious about what the mintmark is. Gaudry only lists mintmarks A, Y & T for 1695. What is visible on the coin makes no sense for any of those, but it does make sense for mintmark "D" (which contained serifs) The mintmark is located on the reverse and is within the central circle that is partially obscured due to the oval counterstamp containing a fleur-di-lis. (It is that countermark which re-valued it to a quinzain from 15 denier). What is everyones thoughts of this being a mintmark D? French minor coinage is largely understudied, and this came from a tumultuous time of reforms, so it is very likely that it could simply be a new discovery. The third photo is a blow-up of the central circle, and what I see as a D with a serif coming off of it and it is seen next to the minor punch or tick mark on the coin. Thanks everyone. Edited by MaximillianMike 04/01/2024 9:40 pm Report this Post to the Staff

Pertinax Pillar of the Community United Kingdom 2071 Posts	Posted 04/03/2024 2:23 pm I'm puzzled; I thought a quinzaine was 15 deniers. As for the mintmark, I think it's an L. Compare this specimen for the base coin https://www.cgb.fr/louis-xiv-le-gra...61486,a.html Report this Post to the Staff
MaximillianMike Valued Member United States 85 Posts	Posted 04/03/2024 4:09 pm Pertinax, My understanding is that this specific quinzain is overstruck on a 15 deniers of Louis XIII and redenominated as a Louis XIV quinzain which is 15 deniers. I thought L possibly too but it would be off center and most examples I have seen the mintmark is well centered. I am just only learning about these so bare with me if my original post didn't make sense. Also I like your username. I have a very nice denarius of Pertinax that is a treasure in my collection. I appreciate your reply. Edited by MaximillianMike 04/03/2024 4:11 pm Report this Post to the Staff
Pertinax Pillar of the Community United Kingdom 2071 Posts	Posted 04/03/2024 7:45 pm The host coin can't be Louis XIII, he died in 1643. I can see XIIII (ie Louis XIV) at 4 to 5 o'clock on the reverse. I'm wondering whether it's partially double struck. Report this Post to the Staff
MaximillianMike Valued Member United States 85 Posts	Posted 04/03/2024 11:19 pm That is true of Louis XIII, here is the reference that discusses the overstrike. With that being said it could be an overstrike of a previous Louis XIV. The numista link below references Louis XIII but it is for that specific example. The IIII you see is where it supposed to be. I don't see enough details to say conclusively what its struck over. (I mispoke out of lack of understanding) I am still learning about this type. In Gaudry's reference it does state these were overstruck on pieces from previous King's in a manner that implies that that is in addition to overstrikes from Louis XIV. I don't think it's double struck as there's clearly an undertype most notable by the N at around 11 on the reverse. Thanks for your assistance, it is appreciated. https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces37829.html Edited by MaximillianMike 04/04/2024 12:00 am Report this Post to the Staff
Dearborn Moderator United States 68784 Posts	Posted 04/04/2024 6:47 pm Boy, how you folks can read that is beyond me.. Can't make heads or tails of this one (well the heads and tails part I do but the writing is lost to me..) Collecting since 1972. Learning from then on "Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn." - Benjamin Franklin 7070 type set coin count: 47/76 Uncirculated American Silver Eagles My American Silver Eagle Proof Collection Innovation Dollars Eisenhower-Dollars Kennedy-Half Dollars Washington-Quarters Roosevelt-Dimes Buffalo-Nickels Jefferson-Nickels Lincoln-Cents Report this Post to the Staff
Pertinax Pillar of the Community United Kingdom 2071 Posts	Posted 04/04/2024 8:03 pm MaximillianMike I see what you mean. I am having difficulty in deciding whether it is overstruck on an un-countermarked coin, or overstruck and then countermarked, or overstruck on a countermarked coin. I'm hampered by not having any reference books to hand. I can't see much logic in overstriking a quinzaine of Louis XIII with a quinzaine of Louis XIV. However, I can see some logic in overstriking a quinzaine of Louis XIV on a billon douzaine of Louis XIII. Do you have any evidence apart from the example in Numista of coins of Louis XIV being countermarked to revalue them? Report this Post to the Staff
MaximillianMike Valued Member United States 85 Posts	Posted 04/04/2024 9:22 pm Pertinax, It is defenitly a hard thing to determine the pattern of striking this coin took. I am inclined to believe its overstruck on an old billon coin and then countermarked. Reformed pieces were sometimes nearly devoid of its former self before being restruck and others not so much. Of note reforme issue means it was overstruck on an older coin. What I see on the obverse rim at about 4 or 5 the letters EX for what I would assume is REX and that can be found on Louis XIII examples. I do have the Gaudry reference that supports my theory here. The publication is in French so I have to use Google translate as I cannot read it very well. It states as seen below that reformes and old billon coins of previous King's were used. I personally think given all the circumstances it's a reforme issue that was first overstruck and then countermarked. Louis XIII examples also have a different obverse and reverse design so it would support that at least the middle of this coin could have been filed down to strike the new pattern but the legends not so much. In any case it's a mystery and I bought it as a study piece and it is living up to that expectation. Dearborn, it's challenging some times to read these and other reforme issues but I have been fortunate to have alot of practice. Picture from Monaisse Royales Francaises (Gaudry) below. Report this Post to the Staff
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