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Coin ID When And How Many

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ageka's Avatar
Belgium
2078 Posts
 Posted 03/31/2006  1:17 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add ageka to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I lack any reference material that is not directly related to gold coins
So I come accross this silver coin which should be a gold coin
A 1866 Napoleon Laureated III 100 FF at 16.69 grams and looking like relatively new solid silver

I presume it comes from Monnaie de Paris but cannot find any production year nor the amount minted
It is so good it must come from original french dies
Does anyone have a recent silver catalogue showing this french coin ?
I presume it is post 1990 minted

Coin-ID-When-And-How-Many

Coin-ID-When-And-How-Many



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ageka's Avatar
Belgium
2078 Posts
 Posted 03/31/2006  1:19 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ageka to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Head


Coin-ID-When-And-How-Many
Edited by ageka
03/31/2006 1:22 pm
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Gary Burke's Avatar
United States
3730 Posts
 Posted 03/31/2006  2:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Gary Burke to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Beautiful coin ageka.

Reminds me of the 50 FR solver coin I purchased in the last month.

Mine can't compate with yours, being 112 years newer, but it is attractive.
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ageka's Avatar
Belgium
2078 Posts
 Posted 03/31/2006  2:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ageka to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
HI Gary
Do you mean Hercules with lady liberty and lady justice ?
Several million of those
I got mine for 6.5 euro



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Susanlynn9's Avatar
United States
5877 Posts
 Posted 03/31/2006  3:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Susanlynn9 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The only book I have for World coinage is Krause. I cannot find any commemoratives or silver that were reissued with the original date. They all seem to have modern dates. Perhaps yours is a modern forgery or commemorative medal similar to the US Franklin Mint or similar that produce rare US coins in proof or uncirculated form and sell them as reproductions.
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ageka's Avatar
Belgium
2078 Posts
 Posted 03/31/2006  3:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ageka to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you Susan
but I am virtually sure it is a Monnaie de Paris Commem because of the quality of the die and who would want to conterfeight a gold coin in silver ?
It probably is only registered in a french catalogue and I know of no french collectors
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Sap's Avatar
Australia
16842 Posts
 Posted 04/01/2006  08:21 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I agree. There's nothing of the sort listed in Krause; it does list some uniface trials of the 1855 and 1862 dates. It could be a test piece to try out the dies, but why would they test the dies with a metal (silver) tougher than the one the dies are intended for (gold)? Test pieces are usually done in a softer metal, like lead.

Do the French mint have a reputation for "novodels" or made-to-order restrikes?
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Australia
3831 Posts
 Posted 04/01/2006  09:03 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add gxseries to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That is indeed interesting. How expensive is an original gold coin Ageka?

There is a highly rare Imperial Russian coin with the dual denomination 37.5 rubles - 100 francs, with approximately 2 thousand minted meant for overseas payment but many got melted away. There were too many requests from the collectors to the Russian mint that they should make a restrike of such, and hence such was granted, in THREE different form, that is gold plated, silver itself, and I think it is Nitrious Oxide plating.

I am not too sure if the French mint did such, but I would not be too suprised. Afterall, France is one of the the world mints that led to the revolution of coinages.
My partial coin collection http://www.omnicoin.com/collection/gxseries
My numismatics articles and collection: http://www.gxseries.com/numis/numis_index.htm
Regularly updated at least once a month.
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ageka's Avatar
Belgium
2078 Posts
 Posted 04/01/2006  11:27 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ageka to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by gxseries

That is indeed interesting. How expensive is an original gold coin Ageka?



A gold 100 FF Laureate Napoleon III 1866 BB would go around 1000 euro give or take 300 euro depending on the "look" of the coin

@ SAP
The french mint or Monnaie de Paris has a reputation for cranking out silver and gold in limited series at high prices all official coins
( like five ounce gold coins and 1 kilogram silvercoins )
They also do medals
As far as I know they have never handled "orders" for commercial strikes or restrikes

The quality of the silver 100 FF makes me think it is struck with Monnaie de Paris dies
Since it has no euro denomination it is pre 2002 and since it is very uncolored it probably was struck between 1990 and 2002
It may be an abandonned series that was supposed to be goldplated

In Krause world gold coins at the end of France there is a page
P for Piedfort and PE with Essai
In that section they have eg a silver 50 FF hercules but struck in gold Krause wrongly reports there are 54 of these
( I know better since I got an original certificate saying there are 100 ) So the Monnaie de Paris seems to do coins as a rarity in other materials but the 1866 date bothers me since they seem to use the real date and I cannot conceive this coin being really from 1866

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ageka's Avatar
Belgium
2078 Posts
 Posted 04/03/2006  05:27 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ageka to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Could the coin somehow have been made in Mexico ?
Seems Napoleon III was master of Mexico in 1866

One of the last European adventures in the New World was France's expedition to Mexico in 1861 which took advantage of the civil unrest there. Napoleon III of France set up a Mexican Empire ruled by Archduke Maximilian, the brother of Emperor Francis Joseph of Austria. Emperor Maximilian's coinage consisted of a silver peso divided in to 100 centavos with silver 50, 10 and 5 centavos and copper one centavos. There also exists a gold 20 Pesos (33.84 grams).
The United States refused to recognize the rule of Maximilian and demanded that France leave Mexico. France left but didn't take poor Maximilian with them. He was very unpopular and was executed in 1867 and the Republic was restored.

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Bryan1315's Avatar
United States
14454 Posts
 Posted 04/03/2006  07:00 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bryan1315 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I know ntional collectors Mint makes copies of US coins that are very good copies and are tribute coins and I think that is what susan was talking about. I dont know if anyone makes coins from that country like that or not but if so it would still look like the original even though it was with a different metal than was used in the original. They do it at National Collectors Mint that way because they are mass produced and its just alot cheaper to make and for the people buying the coin. not saying I think your coin is a copy but just stating that it can be done that they look exactly like the original even though they arent legal tender and not in the original metal. If you want to look at what I am refering to you can go to ncmint.com
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ageka's Avatar
Belgium
2078 Posts
 Posted 04/03/2006  07:37 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ageka to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you Bryan
I know the Franklin Mint could easily do it and there is a German private Mint that could easily do it
Problem is I have never ever seen one of these coins before and I read most ebays daily
So if there was any volume at all made I think I should have seen it

So I think it is a limited issue maybe Monnaie de Paris ( contempory french official mint) or it was made in 1866 ? Trial strike or patter or whatever and well preserved

Anyway I know from experience that fantasy strikes go very little over melt value
I bought a limited edition ( 100 pieces only ) of a gold Hercules coin
( normally it is silver ) It is still in the original cellophane seal from Monnaie de Paris and with certificate and with original box all for 10% over meltvalue
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thekidcollector's Avatar
Kuwait
1523 Posts
 Posted 04/03/2006  09:41 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add thekidcollector to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Awesome coin there Ageka!!
Can't believe gold is 1000 euros!!
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ageka's Avatar
Belgium
2078 Posts
 Posted 04/06/2006  5:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ageka to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Presumably the coin comes from Monnaie de Paris de official French mint and was part of a set issued in 2002
But even with that information I cannot get any info on the internet
In the set were at least five more goldcoins but minted in silver
some of them reproductions of 500 year old coins
I fear I will have to become member of a french collector site to find out about this coin
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ageka's Avatar
Belgium
2078 Posts
 Posted 04/16/2006  2:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ageka to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Upon establishing the coins data versus a real gold coin from 1867
it was found that the real coin is 35.2 mm at 32.26 gram and my
coin is 35.4 mm at 16.71 gram

Now this is really weird because my coin has a ribbed rim and the real gold one has a flat rim with text
And my coin has to be copper that was silverised

Silverising was sometimes done to teststrikes ( I think I read they die this with teststrikes of the 2 francs coin )

Carl found
krause worldcoins 1801/1900 TS 25 and TS 26 but those teststrikes he says have another year 1862

Any ideas ?

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ageka's Avatar
Belgium
2078 Posts
 Posted 04/18/2006  3:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ageka to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I asked the owner of a french coin site
I got the answer coin unknown but if you want to sell please quote me your price
Now why does that make me wonder [:0]
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