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1921 Morgan....added Pictures!

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killians76's Avatar
United States
985 Posts
 Posted 04/21/2009  8:12 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add killians76 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
dont know anything about these just thought I would ask. 3 pictures, one of the E one of the F and something that looks extra to me,arrows are pointing my questions out, I have more pics if needed.
http://i423.photobucket.com/albums/...morgan_E.jpg
http://i423.photobucket.com/albums/...morgan_F.jpg
http://i423.photobucket.com/albums/...ingextra.jpg


I took a better look at this coin and it seems to have a crack line or whatever it is called almost all the way across on the reverse and a pretty good one on the obverse, see what you think?
http://i423.photobucket.com/albums/...COINS023.jpg
http://i423.photobucket.com/albums/...COINS024.jpg
http://i423.photobucket.com/albums/...COINS025.jpg
http://i423.photobucket.com/albums/...COINS026.jpg
http://i423.photobucket.com/albums/...COINS027.jpg
http://i423.photobucket.com/albums/...COINS028.jpg
http://i423.photobucket.com/albums/...COINS029.jpg
http://i423.photobucket.com/albums/...COINS030.jpg
http://i423.photobucket.com/albums/...COINS031.jpg
Edited by killians76
06/14/2009 11:01 pm
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xshift's Avatar
United States
2669 Posts
 Posted 04/21/2009  8:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add xshift to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
1921's are SuperDave's favorite.. I'm sure he'll be along shortly to let you know what you have going on with this one. You might want to post a heads-up in the VAM forum to speed his attention

By the way, those are excellent shots!
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Morgans Dad's Avatar
United States
5604 Posts
 Posted 04/21/2009  9:36 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Morgans Dad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Excellent picture's, I believe you have some clash marks on the reverse of this Morgan, Along the wreaths. If you can do an overlay with this coin, you would see what I am talking about. I do believe the other picture's show some Dbl'g or tripling on the letter's, just my opinion...
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killians76's Avatar
United States
985 Posts
 Posted 04/22/2009  05:55 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add killians76 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have no way or idea how to make one for this coin could someone help?
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MorgansRmine's Avatar
United States
1219 Posts
 Posted 04/22/2009  06:23 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MorgansRmine to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
killians, what your showing is master die problems on the lettering. Many 1921s have the spike on the F. If you can, post some pictures on the VAM section we'll work on it. SuperDave is much better with the 21s than I am. Close ups and whole coin pictures of both obverse & reverse.
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
United States
23522 Posts
 Posted 04/22/2009  08:06 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I took the liberty of moving this to the VAM forum.

There are two major reverse die varieties for 1921 Morgans, referred to as D1 and D2. The spike on the F is characteristic of the D2 reverse, found on all varieties with this reverse.

I'm really interested in the third pic - it certainly looks like clashing, which is relatively uncommon on 1921's. It'd be a great help if you could get full shots of the faces of the coin.
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killians76's Avatar
United States
985 Posts
 Posted 04/22/2009  10:02 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add killians76 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have been looking for my macro lens and cant find it I will post the pics you want as soon as I can. What does it mean to have clash on it if that is what it is, Value goes down or up or just something to have in my collection or what? Thanks Superdave
Edited by killians76
04/22/2009 10:07 pm
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chris12018's Avatar
United States
2130 Posts
 Posted 04/23/2009  01:20 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add chris12018 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
A clash is an impression from the opposite side of the coin. Value would depend on grade & VAM.
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
United States
23522 Posts
 Posted 04/23/2009  7:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Sometimes, during the minting process, a planchet fails to load into the press yet it operates anyways, causing the dies to strike each other. As a result, features of the one die are pressed into the other - remember, we're talking about enormous pressures here.

Then, on the next cycle a planchet does feed in, and the "clashed" dies transfer the impression of the opposite die which has been pounded into them by the clash strike. The details you pointed out on the reverse of your coin are supposed to be on the obverse.

Standing alone, they're not enough to add extra value, but they do add interest since they're relatively uncommon with 1921's. However, as chris12018 mentions, they could be associated with a variety which would add value to the coin. Highly interesting either way.
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killians76's Avatar
United States
985 Posts
 Posted 05/30/2009  9:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add killians76 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I am sorry it is taking so long to post full pics of the coin, I have no lens anymore, dont know where I put it, and I have been looking, anyway the guy the let me take pics of it and post it for him offered it to me for 20 dollars, is it worth it?
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
United States
23522 Posts
 Posted 05/30/2009  11:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
the guy the let me take pics of it and post it for him offered it to me for 20 dollars, is it worth it?


Depends on the condition, which we're unable to determine from the detail pics you posted. In AU, $20 isn't unreasonable for this coin.
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killians76's Avatar
United States
985 Posts
 Posted 05/31/2009  09:33 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add killians76 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks SuperDave, I thought I might get it, not for the condition it is in(which it is in pretty good shape), but for the clash which is uncommon for that year. Where might I find me another macro lens/wide angle lens?
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
United States
23522 Posts
 Posted 06/15/2009  12:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Die cracks are very common on Morgans, especially 1921's because they pushed the dies so hard to produce them by the millions. Almost 45 million 1921-P Morgans were struck, more than twice the total of any previous year or mint. The other two mints produced over 20 million 1921 coins apiece.

As a result, cracks and die polishing to remove those cracks abound. Die cracks alone aren't significant enough to list as a VAM, although once the crack has progressed in size enough to show the features of a break, a VAM designation is usually given.

The cracks you show here don't rise to the level of a break, but they would be useful as markers to identify which specific VAM the coin might be. We really need full-face images of each side to begin this process.
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rockdude's Avatar
United States
1807 Posts
 Posted 06/25/2009  2:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add rockdude to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here's a overlay if you still need it.
1921-Morgan....added-Pictures!
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