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1964-D Jefferson Nickel With Clipped Planchet.

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Brandmeister's Avatar
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 Posted 05/20/2024  3:37 pm Show Profile   Check Brandmeister's eBay Listings Bookmark this topic Add Brandmeister to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
ebay purchase, sold at auction as a clipped planchet, reasonable price. Nice visible Blakesley effect on this coin. Metal flow toward the gap, but not much of a Smith effect on the rim corners.

Not sure if I would describe this coin as uncirculated, but it is overall in great condition.

1964-D-Jefferson-Nickel-With-Clipped-Planchet.
1964-D-Jefferson-Nickel-With-Clipped-Planchet.
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Brandmeister's Avatar
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 Posted 05/20/2024  3:39 pm  Show Profile   Check Brandmeister's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Brandmeister to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Ugh, and I see that my iPad spell corrected clipped to clipper in the file names. C'est la vie!
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ijn1944's Avatar
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 Posted 05/20/2024  3:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ijn1944 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Interesting. Please post a pic of the 'clipped' portion of the rim, end-on. Would like to see what the clip edge/face (end-on) looks like. Thanks.
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Brandmeister's Avatar
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 Posted 05/20/2024  4:03 pm  Show Profile   Check Brandmeister's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Brandmeister to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yes, I will do it later this evening. I didn't have my dollar store slinky available when I snapped the first pics. =)
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Tacc's Avatar
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 Posted 05/20/2024  4:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Tacc to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Looks good and obvious Blakesley effect showing.
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Errers and Varietys's Avatar
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 Posted 05/20/2024  5:07 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Errers and Varietys to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Nice Clipped Planchet!
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Coinfrog's Avatar
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 Posted 05/20/2024  5:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Looks good, congrats!
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Marv65's Avatar
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 Posted 05/20/2024  10:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Marv65 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Looks good to me too!
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tyr4nt's Avatar
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 Posted 05/21/2024  10:41 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tyr4nt to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Just a question - is it odd that there is a pinch mark on the obverse & reverse 180* out from the clipped part? Is it a possibility that this coin was in a vise of some kind and the clipped portion was removed post-minting?
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Tacc's Avatar
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 Posted 05/21/2024  12:02 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Tacc to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
- is it odd that there is a pinch mark on the obverse & reverse 180* out from the clipped part?

..that's the Blakesley Effect mentioned above.
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tyr4nt's Avatar
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 Posted 05/21/2024  12:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tyr4nt to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
..that's the Blakesley Effect mentioned above.
TIL

I used these resources:
error-ref.com/blanking-and-cutting-errors/
error-ref.com/_curved_clips_/

so... If I understand what this site is saying (and I wish they had some diagrams at each bullet point) the clip's absence of material causes the surface pressure of the strike to be uneven in tons/sq-in across the die face. That imbalance in striking pressure results in a softening of the strike opposite the hole.

The power of the strike is lost to the deficit area. Sort of like how if you have an open differential, power goes to spin the wheel with the least resistance? Am I understanding this correctly?

It would be super cool to see a finite element analysis / force map of a normal strike and a clipped planchet strike. If anyone has details hit me please. I've subbed to this thread.
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Cujohn's Avatar
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 Posted 05/21/2024  2:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Cujohn to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
why does it appear like it is at an angle?
I've noticed this too on some pictures. I think they are taken setting in the window of a black 2X2, that creates an optical illusion.
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Cujohn's Avatar
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 Posted 05/21/2024  2:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Cujohn to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Just a question - is it odd that there is a pinch mark on the obverse & reverse 180* out from the clipped part? Is it a possibility that this coin was in a vise of some kind and the clipped portion was removed post-minting?
The Blakesley effect is produced when the blank is turned in the upsetting mill. That's when the rim is put on the edge, Kind of hard to explain. There are 2 rolling pins 180degress apart rolling the rim on, when one of the pins hits the clip, that moves the blank towards that pin and away from the other one. With no pressure the rim doesn't get formed at the Blakesley's spot.
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Brandmeister's Avatar
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 Posted 05/21/2024  5:41 pm  Show Profile   Check Brandmeister's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Brandmeister to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Old timey upset mill:
cLIlTetETG0


Philly Mint:
mX73eThpM2k


I find it easier to first imagine the upset mill as two grooved rails. They move in opposite directions and are slightly closer to the exit than the entrance. The blank drops between them and the proto-rim is squeezed by the rolling motion as the blank moves towards the exit.

In reality, the upset mill is a fixed outer rim. The inner rim is motorized and turning. The effect is the same—the blank rolls between the grooved rails, and as the space between the rails slightly decreases, the proto-rim is pushed up on the edge of the blank: Viola, a planchet.

As John said, the Blakesley effect happens because every time the gap rolls around, the blank is narrower than the rail distance. So instead of a proto-rim getting shoved up on the opposite side, the blank simply moves sideways between the rails until it rotates past the missing metal again.

This is all before striking. Now the coin gets struck. The metal flow towards the gap and the Smith effect on the rim corners happen during striking. But regarding the rim, the striking process simply transforms the proto-rim into the final rim by smashing it between the two dies and the collar. Since the malformed planchet is missing metal on one side, and lacking a proper proto-rim 180 degrees opposite, nothing during the strike is going to fix that.

If the clip is small enough (and depending on the upset mill and striking machine), sometimes a little clip doesn't produce a visible Blakesley effect on the planchet, and the final coin rim seems normal opposite the clip. HOWEVER, if you are shopping for clipped coins on ebay, a coin show, or anywhere else, and you see a sizable clip but a missing Blakesley effect, that is a big red flag for a fake mint error coin.
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