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 Replies: 12 / Views: 2,808 |
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Valued Member
Australia
138 Posts |
I bought a small lot of 8 florins on a popular auction site recently and received them today. There were 7 50% florins and one sterling florin (1934) which I immediately noticed didn't look right.
The obverse looks normal and fairly worn while the reverse is completely off. The surface is all bumpy; it appears to be cast rather poorly. I'm assuming it's a lead knock-off. I'm going to find out where the seller got it from and see what the story is, based on their feedback and items for sale they look honest.
I'll try and get a good picture up so people can have a look. Any thoughts on what I should do with the coin?
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
2830 Posts |
G'day, I wouldn't want to pay too much for such a forgery, but I did pay a couple of dollars for a 1932 florin in lead, in order to broaden my collection. I have acquired quite a few British forgeries of the Georgian era, which stand nicely against real coins of the same era.
Peter in Darwin
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Valued Member
 Australia
138 Posts |
Yeah, luckily I was just picking up a few coins for less than their silver value. Here are a couple of photos, hopefully you get a good idea of what the surface looks like:   |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1415 Posts |
 to see your acquisition I would notify the auction site of the problem immediately. IF the seller misrepresented the coins and gets away it will only happen again. Clearly the one that you show is a fake. What about the rest? |
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Valued Member
Australia
138 Posts |
The others are all fine, it is just this one that is fake. I was just buying the coins for their silver content, I paid around $3 each for them. The seller has 100% feedback, mostly on single florins and bulk pennies and stuff. It is hard to imagine that they did not know this was a fake but I will wait and see what they say. At that price I will probably just keep the fake as part of my collection, and will make sure it does not get misrepresented to someone else in the future.
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Valued Member
Australia
138 Posts |
And just to follow up, do you think this would be a recent forgery or would someone have tried to attempt to pass this coin off back when these still circulated? I think I'm asking someone to date the fake!  Having recent counterfeiters attempting to pass of bullion grade coins will not be good for the hobby! |
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
2830 Posts |
G'day, my impression is that cast-lead forgeries were a phenomenon of the 1930s.
I can't imagine who it was intended might be deceived ...
Peter
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
1040 Posts |
For the price you paid, I would keep it as part of my collection, simply because forgeries intended to be placed into circulation are part of the history of coins. Modern reproductions intended to fool prospective buyers are another story.
Have you weighed it? It kind of looks like gunk on the coin from the pictures, maybe a dip in acetone will remove some of it and you can get a better look.
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
2830 Posts |
WHOA !!
quote: "... forgeries intended to be placed into circulation are part of the history of coins."
- well said, and I respectfully agree.
quote: "Modern reproductions intended to fool prospective buyers are another story."
- agreed
quote: "... looks like gunk on the coin from the pictures, maybe a dip in acetone will remove some of it ..."
- I urge caution here. I beleive that forgeries of this type are usually cast lead (Pb). In time, lead acquires a surface coating of lead oxide, which is whitish in colour. This is probably the "gunk" which is visible. I wouldn't rub it with anything, nor immerse it in anything that it might react with.
Peter
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Valued Member
Australia
138 Posts |
Thanks for all your help. I agree that it makes an interesting piece to have and I will definitely be holding on to it. The person I bought it from said they are new to collecting and had no idea it was a fake. He also offered to provide a refund for the coin, I have no reason to doubt him. Hopefully he can remember where he bought it from. Even though it's a fake I didn't want to affect the grade at all. I think I will avoid cleaning it and leave it as is. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12437 Posts |
Did you ever get an accurate weight on it? I would do that before pronouncing it a definite fake. I am not in a position to comment on the design accuracy itself but I have seen coins with a similar appearance before, caused by salt water exposure.
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Valued Member
Australia
138 Posts |
The weight of the coin is 11.12g, which given a bit of wear is fairly close to the full weight of 11.31g.
A lead based copy could conform to weight though, would it not?
Peter, do you have a weight of the copies you have?
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Valued Member
Australia
372 Posts |
Here is an image of a fake lead florin I have.  The next one is a recent one, not lead, but a very good fake.  Some info on fake florins from Triton's pages. |
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Replies: 12 / Views: 2,808 |
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Posted 05/18/2009 09:32 am
