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 Replies: 8 / Views: 735 |
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
2868 Posts |
A recent pick-up. I believe there are two main variants of this coin. The normal one with the mint lettering of "DE CLARENCIA" and this one which has the lettering of "NEPANTI CIVIS" It first is on Numista ( https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pi...125576.html) but this one doesn't seem to be. I assume there is enough of a difference for it to warrant it's own entry but I don;t have any reference books for this area so I was wondering if anyone else had one that could confirm if it is Mallory 111a or 111b? As it wasn't on Numista that I could see I traced it down using ChatGPT using a mixture of image search and legend search. Quite cool really, though it didn't get it right first time and even argued about it :) But still, it's going to be a fantastic resource for this sort of thing going forward for the more obscure coins outside the possibility of coinscope for example. That also got me wondering about the longevity of the business model of say, coinarchives, which would be the professional research site - if the likes of chatgpt can scrape all the current images and, going forward, retain them for reference in such a user-friendly interface.  |
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Moderator
 United States
187582 Posts |
Quote:
A recent pick-up. Very nice!  Quote:
That also got me wondering about the longevity of the business model of say, coinarchives, which would be the professional research site - if the likes of chatgpt can scrape all the current images and, going forward, retain them for reference in such a user-friendly interface.  |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
7933 Posts |
Nice coin! I'll start by saying I don't have the catalog, so I embarked on my typical "reverse engineering" tactics.. I looked on acsearch and using the search term NEPANTI CIVIS there were 78 hits, very few of them attributed as 111b. If you look at these two attributed by Leu (who seem to me to be pretty trustworthy) in the same auction, the only difference I can see is that the one attributed as 111a has a fleur-de-lis only at the beginning of the legend around the cross:  Copyright Leu Numismatik and the one attributed as 111b has a fleur-de-lis at both beginning and end of the legend:  Copyright Leu Numismatik Maybe someone else has the catalog and can check. Edited by tdziemia
08/01/2025 07:01 am
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Moderator
Australia
16806 Posts |
Yes, that's now the Malloy catalogue describes it; 111b has two fleur de lys either side of the cross (at beginning and end of the obverse legend), 111a only has the one at the beginning (to the right of the cross). Yours seems to be 111b.
There are other varieties; type 112 has a a large pellet below the "castle"; 113 has a fleur-de-lys there, 114 has three pellets there. Yours has nothing there, so type 111b it is.
As for dating, Malloy attributes both 111a and 111b to "before 1306"; i.e. to the period 1293-1306. Being minted in Lepanto (Nepanti Civis), these coins are filed under "Despotate of Epirus" rather than "Principality of Achaea". The coins with the "De Clarencia" mint-name are from Achaea. Same prince, same time period, different principalities.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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Pillar of the Community
 United Kingdom
2868 Posts |
Thanks everyone - that's really helpful. The "fleur-de-lis" do require a bit of imagination at times - one of those where it helps to know what you are looking for before you look for it.
His dual "rulership" naturally makes organising them in my catalogue tricky :) But not a terrible problem to have. But Despotate of Epirus it is - cool title!
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Pillar of the Community
Russian Federation
5172 Posts |
Despotate of Epirus indeed; I searched for "Nepanti" on Numista and found it listed under that name, as Numista 116306. I see that the 116306 page has the Clarencia variety too - looks like Numista also gets confused in what's covered where sometimes  I suspect that the real distinction between the Achaea and Epirus issues is not so much the mint name (Clarencia = Glarentza, vs. Nepanti = Lepanto), as Philip's titles on the obverse: if it says P ACH it's from Achaea, if it says DESP it's from Epirus. Of course normally the Achaea coins would be minted in Glarentza (which is in Achaea), and the Epirus coins would be minted in Lepanto (which is in Epirus). However, if Numista is to be trusted, there's a variety with Achaea obverse and Lepanto reverse; I'm not sure where it should be classified, if it exists. Your coin, and both of the coins you posted, are unambiguously Epirus on both points. |
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
2868 Posts |
Thanks very much for locating that Numista reference.
It looks like there is quite a nice little collection of varieties that can be had from this ruler.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7933 Posts |
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I see that the 116306 page has the Clarencia variety too - looks like Numista also gets confused in what's covered where sometimes
I suspect that the real distinction between the Achaea and Epirus issues is not so much the mint name (Clarencia = Glarentza, vs. Nepanti = Lepanto), as Philip's titles on the obverse: if it says P ACH it's from Achaea, if it says DESP it's from Epirus. Yeah, the Numista date line on #116306 (Epirus) with legend + PhS P ACh' TAR D R // + DE CLARENCIA (D et #1028; lies).should be with the other listing (Achaea). And the Malloy 94 attribution for the whole type looks dubious. There is indeed a type with ACHAEA obverse and NEPANTI reverse. It also has the fleur-de-lis beneath the chatel, so maybe it's the one cited by Sap as Malloy 112? https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=14030844 Some of that can be easily fixed  It's also not at all clear to me why Achaea is under Crusder States but Epirus is under the Byzantine Empire. Edited by tdziemia
08/02/2025 8:46 pm
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Bedrock of the Community
Australia
21786 Posts |
Congrats Baccus 2 ! Pleasing example, nice even strike and condition, all legends fully included on a complete round flan. |
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Replies: 8 / Views: 735 |
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Posted 08/01/2025 06:59 am
