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How To Value Notes When The Various Pricing Sources Are Different

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 Posted 08/07/2025  2:42 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add KelC to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
How do you value a note when the pricing information from Charlton, C&C, and/or CCN are different? Not a big deal for minor differences, but in some cases the difference is substantial.

Thanks!
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 Posted 08/07/2025  8:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add john100 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
What is the note?
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 Posted 08/08/2025  12:10 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add KelC to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here are a couple examples:

1971 $10 Lawson-Bouey Low Serial (100-999) UNC60
C&C: $110
Charlton 2024: $225

1973 $1 Lawson-Bouey 2 Letter UNC65
C&C: $35
Charlton 2024: $5
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 Posted 08/08/2025  3:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add walk2dwater to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
How do you value a note when the pricing information from Charlton, C&C, and/or CCN are different? Not a big deal for minor differences, but in some cases the difference is substantial.


-It is difficult but here's what I can tell you:
All pricing tables (price of a series/prefix/variety based on condition) are just estimates based on (traditionally) what a pricing panel (experts in the field) who "guestimate" what a specific type of prefix would fetch according to GRADE & the data they have.

General prefixes are not scrutinized & often dismissed (unless they're the first 3 "darling" series: 1935, 1937 & 1954 Devil's Face). General prefixes for the first 3 series are probably the most accurate in the catalogues (as they're the most prized by most dealers) and may be low in the books (vs reality or true market value).

However, the Modified 1954 series & newer just don't get the scrutiny (nor accuracy) that you'd expect for the first 3 series. General prefixes are considered very common & not super collectible.

Next, you have to question "where does C&C get their data?" As far as I can tell, it is from ebay sales but the transparency is not C&C strongest point. I have contacted the administrator for C&C to point out some glaring errors & no reply. He's clearly a "coin guy" & won't discuss how he comes up with his table "algorithms." He eventually corrected a couple errors I posted on a thread but with no reply (no thanks for the heads up, etc).

Where does Charlton get their data? From a panel of experts in the field (check the first pages of the catalogue as the pricing panel are named). So most dealers will go with the Charlton experts' estimates vs the C&C (or other online tables).

Whenever you get into more collectible notes (like lower #) the answer to your question gets even more murkier. For one, collectors seek true low # (below 10) & sometimes go for 100 & below for 1954 & earlier series but rarely chase 100-999. So I find C&C's estimate much more accurate than Charlton's (especially since UNC60 is pretty common compared to UNC 66) & Charlton's estimates are always based on original Choice UNC 64. That's the golden standard for errors & special # at the back of the book & then the condition deducts value in %, step-by-step graduations. I would estimate the value of the $10 Lawson-Bouey note to be closer to $110 & consider $225 for a BCS UNC 64 Original (which are pretty tough to find since BCS is so strict). Low # notes were sold by the BoC so they're much more common in higher grades than other signatures.


Quote:
1973 $1 Lawson-Bouey 2 Letter UNC65
C&C: $35
Charlton 2024: $5

The C&C estimate is likely for a graded GEM UNC 65 & its probably a record high sale. Graded notes always get a big premium due to the cost involved & assurance that the note is possibly a top-pop. Charlton's $5.00 estimate is for a ungraded Choice UNC 64 note & since billions of 1973 ONES were issued, I would think far more accurate $5.00 (a fair price considering how common these are & dealers have too many).

C&C = CoinsandCanada website & pricing tables they offer online such as this one for the 1969-1975 series:
https://www.coinsandcanada.com/bank...75&id_cat=17

Charlton = Charlton Government Paper Money catalogue:
https://www.charltonpress.com/produ...edition-2024

Hope that helps answer your question!

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JimmyD's Avatar
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 Posted 08/08/2025  4:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JimmyD to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Another thing to consider is when they got their information.
Charlton's prices are at least a year old , maybe longer
as they start printing the catalogue a year ahead of time.
If the catalogue you have is two years old, then the
prices are at least three years old.
C&C can keep current prices updated almost daily if
they want but are much more recent than Charlton.
This is why I only use Charlton for general reference.
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 Posted 08/08/2025  5:48 pm  Show Profile   Check Brandmeister's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Brandmeister to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Charlton's estimates are always based on original Choice UNC 64.


For rare coins, I have observed this as well. The price guide at PCGS isn't a thorough analysis of sales for each specific grade. Their MS65 estimate seems fairly accurate to the market history, and all lower grades seem to be a percentage of MS65. Many lower grades are completely out of sync with real market results. I imagine the same is true of paper money pricing guides.
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 Posted 08/09/2025  09:20 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add walk2dwater to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Many lower grades are completely out of sync with real market results. I imagine the same is true of paper money pricing guides.


Yes, I have observed that the catalogues are extremely weak (unreliable) for low grade notes (& some popular series). It's as if the panel has snubbed lower grades & polymer b/c they're mostly "old-school" collectors/specialists. They typically wish to err on the side of caution giving conservative estimates (specifically on low grades). So, tables are not so helpful when looking at items that sit between graduations (like a note that is in between EF & AU or EF+) & the lower grades. Tables also tend to be either overly optimistic for recent series (insert replacements) yet completely out of touch with short prefixes (like scarce 2012 BSW $20 or 2013 M-C FTH $10) & change overs.

I also feel that collectors don't really know how to deal with the pricing tables well. They don't get how to factor a double-whammy rarity (eg change-over/radar) or some tough items that don't fit the table. I suppose this takes time (practice) but one is supposed to remember that the figures are a guide.

For the past 10 years, I have had more contact with younger collectors who collect exclusively polymer (no paper) than my peers. Their biggest challenge is to find a perfect GEM note (without scratches on the holographic windows) but the panel is out of touch with how poorly produced most first BoC polymer was (so many had scratches). If you look at some of the TPG UNC gems on C&C Auction results, you may be shocked at the high prices reached. That's b/c fewer polymers are being submitted (but then again it could be debated that some TPG's are giving out very liberal, high grades!) You will find that C&C vs Charlton estimates can be quite different.

Even the 2015 & 2017 Commemoratives ($20 & $10) had very different releases (thousands missing in straps) which made them another "kettle of fish." Special # (radars, low# etc) were very challenging to find for these (but the tables don't reflect that). The tables are more a continuation of the Journey series formula (which is really inaccurate IMO).
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 Posted 08/09/2025  09:37 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add walk2dwater to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
C&C can keep current prices updated almost daily if
they want but are much more recent than Charlton.
This is why I only use Charlton for general reference.


Current pricing should be more relevant. However, I have found most of the figures for regular prefixes slightly high & for (tougher) replacements slightly low. C&C rarely have short prefixes or change-overs tabled.

When I tried to acquire a set of 1935 Series, I found my Charlton guide very DATED & not overly helpful b/c 80-90% of the sellers were listing the notes I needed in USD. This meant a 30% increase in price (b/c US sellers looked at Charlton figures as if they were in USD not CAD). This was in 2014 & I did not know whether C&C existed.
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 Posted 08/10/2025  12:43 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add KelC to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks everyone!
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 Posted 08/11/2025  10:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DBM to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
How do you value a note when the pricing information from Charlton, C&C, and/or CCN are different?

Checking sold prices on ebay can be very helpful.
Though many 1971 low numbers are listed ,most at Charlton price or higher, only one has sold in the past three months.
127227276732 ,a wakeup call for pricing perhaps.
For vanilla two letter 1973's dozens of unholdered gem unc have sold for $5 or less.
"Dipping" is not considered cleaning...
-from PCGS website
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walk2dwater's Avatar
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 Posted 08/12/2025  07:59 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add walk2dwater to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Checking sold prices on ebay can be very helpful.

Yes, but keep in mind that we're often mixing up the price for a certified note & an uncertified one. This, essentially, is what C&C does (& one reason why the estimates can be high) & unreliable. And if some rarity doesn't sell for a few years, estimates could be low (or high if they reflect a bullish market 2 years ago).


Quote:
Though many 1971 low numbers are listed ,most at Charlton price or higher, only one has sold in the past three months....a wakeup call for pricing perhaps.

-the hobby typically parallels the stock market & if world trade suddenly slows (due to tariffs) this will impact collector spending. There's confusion on whether collectibles will be tariffed too (dampening American interest in cross-border shopping/CAD collectibles). It may be a good time to buy.
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jbuck's Avatar
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 Posted 08/12/2025  11:21 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
this will impact collector spending
Indeed. Necessities go up, discretionary spending goes down.
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