Grading Pre-1900 Large And Small Cents?

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Author	Replies: 6 / Views: 556
Brandmeister Pillar of the Community United States 6498 Posts	Posted 09/12/2025 12:21 pm I am having a hard time understanding the grading criteria for pre-Lincoln cents. I don't mean the numerical grade—I understand circulation wear just fine—but I clearly have a flawed understanding of what will detail or net grade a coin at TPGs. Many lower grade cents cataloged in TrueView appear to have surface pits, mottling that could indicate cleaning or dipping, and scratches that clearly moved metal. Some have large laminations. I do not intend to touch off another thread about "all TPG grading is arbitrary". I just want to better understand grading (and also TPG grading) of older cents, because it is clearly different than 20th century coins. When buying raw coins, there is a 3 figure difference in an XF coin where small pits are ignored, XF net graded to VF for pits, and XF Details Corrosion. Report this Post to the Staff

Brandmeister Pillar of the Community United States 6498 Posts	Posted 09/12/2025 2:35 pm Examples: https://www.pcgs.com/cert/10477056 https://www.pcgs.com/cert/28345209 https://www.pcgs.com/cert/44668874 https://www.pcgs.com/cert/43710605 https://www.pcgs.com/cert/39590931 https://www.pcgs.com/cert/41939868 https://www.pcgs.com/cert/80501995 https://www.pcgs.com/cert/39224491 https://www.pcgs.com/cert/41212221 Report this Post to the Staff
jacrispies Pillar of the Community United States 3848 Posts	Posted 09/12/2025 4:45 pm Fantastic examples that demonstrate why choice coins in holders command premium money. CAC goes a long way with early small cents, as well as Rick Snow's Eagle Eye sticker. There is enough variability in how copper reacts with the environment that leads to greater leniency with grading, compared to silver and gold. With your examples given, I think the scratched and corroded coins should be in details holders. The submitter got lucky with those. The minor delaminations are fine in holders since the impurities and peeling of the metal happen during production. If the delaminations are large enough, PCGS won't holder the coin. Suffering from bust half fever. Want to learn how to attribute early half dollars by die variety? Click Here: http://goccf.com/t/434955 Shoot me a PM if you are looking to sell bust halves. Report this Post to the Staff
Earle42 Bedrock of the Community United States 10034 Posts	Posted 09/12/2025 5:14 pm Quote: I do not intend to touch off another thread about "all TPG grading is arbitrary". I agree there is likely leniency with older coins, and I understand what you are saying in the above quotation. But the reality is trying to apply a "nailed it" style of understanding to something that is not based on anything verifiable is going to result in not being satisfied. The more someone looks at slabbed coins with an eye to figuring it all out, the more the subjectivity of the system becomes apparent. Since this is what they use, this is what will be the result of researching to figure it out. How much squash could a Sasquatch squash if a Sasquatch would squash squash? Download and read: Grading the graders Costly TPG ineptitude and No FG Kennedy halves https://ln5.sync.com/dl/7ca91bdd0/w...i3b-rbj9fir2 Report this Post to the Staff
Brandmeister Pillar of the Community United States 6498 Posts	Posted 09/12/2025 6:05 pm I can accept that there is some leniency with older coins. I guess what I'm trying to mentally counteract is survivor bias. I can see a scratched coin in a TrueView holder, like the one below. That's the survivor of the grading process. What I can't really see is how many similar coins received a Details grade. Was that a lucky submission or does PCGS not think such a scratch is a big deal on a low grade Flying Eagle cent? https://www.pcgs.com/cert/80501995 Report this Post to the Staff
Earle42 Bedrock of the Community United States 10034 Posts	Posted 09/13/2025 11:45 am As I mentioned, I have done a lot of research and have a lot of info/data about, specifically PCGS b/c they are the one the market shows to be the most popular. I have many examples of inconsistencies with their slabs and grading (not hard to find but most people don't compare and contrast like you are!). Their logical reason for having more than one grader per coin is they know human error enters into grading, so if they train someone to the way they want coins graded, they are making an attempt to limit the error. Again I emphasize that when no actual standard is used though, you are going to have the results of subjectivity show up all the time. Part of the success of the companies is that online social media and so many videos on youtube (from people who have never taken the time to research the reality of slabbed coins) have influenced so very many people into just assuming what the label says is unquestionable. Unlike so many other things in our lives in this day and age, coin grading is verifiably not up to standards people expect nowadays. I am serious in saying no one would trust a car mechanic to do something as simple as replacing brake shoes on their car if the mechanics used a "mindset/business model" like the grading companies do. Yet people assume the product from the grading companies is every bit as "good" as their car mechanic. But words are cheap. Take the link (Bobby has graciously given for this file) to see my essay on the rookie level variety PCGS has verifiably wrong (by their own stated/linked standards) with No FG Kennedy half dollars. They have a minimum 30% error with 1982 halves and very much higher mistakes on 1972-D and 1966 SMS halves. https://www.coincommunity.com/pdf/N...ors_Main.pdf The essay even shows you how PCGS, remember they are supposed to be THE coin experts, does not seem to know the simple way to tell a No FG 1982 by the OBV die alone. Note for clarity: I am not being negative about people liking to collect graded coins. I can understand the appeal. I am not really bashing the companies either as being evil. They are a (just a) business doing what businesses do...working to make profit. I am trying to help, especially newbies, see that the companies are not what is assumed. When they understand the reality of the companies, collectors have a better chance at understanding things like the variability in graded coins such as you asking about. When people start to understand the companies it can be frustrating b/c we WANT to be able to think that professionals all use verifiable standards. We are led by media exposure, social media, and other internet sources to assume the companies are what we WANT them to be. But when people star looking (like you are) they find the results of grading company subjectivty is not what they were hoping to find. How much squash could a Sasquatch squash if a Sasquatch would squash squash? Download and read: Grading the graders Costly TPG ineptitude and No FG Kennedy halves https://ln5.sync.com/dl/7ca91bdd0/w...i3b-rbj9fir2 Report this Post to the Staff
panzaldi Bedrock of the Community United States 18660 Posts	Posted 09/14/2025 4:02 pm first never compare TV photos with actual photos. they are meant to enhance a coin to make it look better in most cases. if I only have them to grade by I typically drop the grade a full point. as to your other question regarding detailing or net grading a coin at TPGs there are quite a few components to this. detailing will occur when there has been something that affected the coin after it was struck. it could be a dings that displace metal, graffiti, scratches that did not occur naturally, artificial color, and others. typically the only time a net grade is assigned is on more rare coins where they take that into consideration and lower the grade rather the detail it. the best advice is dont buy a raw one without input from many folks unless you are well versed in the series and year of the coin. it can be costly and we have all done it. these a not everything that goes into this. just understand it can take years of grading coins and looking at them to get a grasp on it and even then you are at the mercy of TPG's and how they see it. TPG's are not always right and the reason many collectors wont slab their coins as the cost and chance it will come back in a less than straight slab is not worth it. Report this Post to the Staff
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