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Anyone Ever Heard Of A TPG Making A Mistake On A Coin?

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Valued Member

United States
317 Posts
 Posted 07/31/2009  12:37 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Terror Of Zanarkand to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Hi all,
I recently acquired a 1909 Indian Half Eagle off ebay for $306 plus shipping. It was sold as a Philly strike, but upon recieving the coin, I noticed that id di in fact have a mintmark. It was worn and faint, but it was there, and it appeared to be an O!! Needless to say, I was quite excited. I showed it to several other people who I know that are involved in the hobby, and they too agreed that it was an O. So I sent it off to ANACS and they certified it as an '09-D. Which sucks. A lot. I wish I had a good pic of the coin so I could post it here, but I don't right now. I was just wondering if anyone has heard of a TPG making a mistake, because this mintmark is round, and there's no trace of any serifs, like would be on a D. Any input would be greatly appreciated.
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Jaobler's Avatar
United States
6389 Posts
 Posted 07/31/2009  12:49 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Jaobler to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Sure, the services make mistakes, most often misprints on the label. I received a promotional silver eagle from PCGS years ago when I joined their Collector Society; it was a 2004-dated coin, but the label showed it as a 2001. It happens.

In the case of your half eagle, I expect it really is a 1909-D. The mintmarks on these coins are usually weakly struck and the serifs on the D would be in the most weakly-struck area, right at the rim. I believe there are other diagnostic features that distinguish the Denver and New Orleans issues and I expect ANACS would not have messed this up.

FYI, here are photos of a genuine 1909-O half eagle, from a Heritage auction. This one actually has a stronger-than-usual mintmark.

Anyone-Ever-Heard-Of-A-TPG-Making-A-Mistake-On-A-Coin?

Anyone-Ever-Heard-Of-A-TPG-Making-A-Mistake-On-A-Coin?
Valued Member
United States
317 Posts
 Posted 07/31/2009  12:52 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Terror Of Zanarkand to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yeah you're probably right. It just confirms my thoughts that I should say to heck with U.S. gold and stick with Mexican. And I can use the half eagle to trade with some other stuff towards a 50 Peso.
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Canada
1248 Posts
 Posted 07/31/2009  12:56 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add hhbkiddo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
for future value, you will be better off with Canadian $5 and $ 10 gold coins 1912-1914 and Newfoundland $2 gold coins 1865 to 1888 ....just look at the minatge numbers and compare them with US.
they are the sleepers....No question about it..
hhb
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Bryan1315's Avatar
United States
14454 Posts
 Posted 07/31/2009  1:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bryan1315 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
the only problem with the foreign gold coins is even though they have a super low mintage not allot of people collect them as they do with US coins for some reason if that ever changes those coins will definitely be considered super sleepers from today. If the market for those were as the US market then allot of them could break records for price paid
Pillar of the Community
Canada
1248 Posts
 Posted 07/31/2009  2:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add hhbkiddo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Bryan, you are right.... and it will happen....Europeans have already started to see the light....NFL gold $2s went for very good $ at auctions.
Valued Member
Canada
166 Posts
 Posted 07/31/2009  4:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add steve kuznicki to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hello,

I have seen 2 certified 1900-H Canadian cents on Teletrade Auctions in the last year; one an NGC MS65 RED and one an ANACS MS64 RED. The trouble is that both had 1900 on their label (which is a very rare coin and worth $THOUSANDS in high MS) while each was in fact a 1900-H (much more common and worth 1/10 as much in MS). The mint marks were very clear (and much larger than those on for example Lincoln cents). This is as blatant as listing a 1909 VDB US cent as a 1909S VDB. Two errors in two tries scares me.

The only coin I ever personally sent to PCGS (although I own many PCGS coins) was an 1882-S quarter eagle that came back an MS62 1882 ( no mint mark) quarter eagle, so I don't see any of the 3 services as infallible.
Valued Member
United States
317 Posts
 Posted 08/01/2009  12:21 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Terror Of Zanarkand to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
hhbkiddo.....Canadian is nice, but I think Mexican is just prettier. I mean, the gold 50 Peso is one of the most beautiful, if not the most beautiful gold coin in the world in my opinion. I want to thank everyone for their input. It's given me some food for thought. I think once I get the coin back, I'll compare it with the picture Jaobler posted ( which I saved to my computer) and see how it compares. If it doesn't match up, I'll either sell the coin or trade it towards a gold 50 Peso as I said before. In any case, I think I'm off U.S. gold. My brief moment of finding a hidden treasure and having it turn out to be the one gold $5 I'd never want to own has kind of spoiled it for me. At this point, I wish it had just been the 09-P I thought I'd bought in the first place.
Valued Member
United States
317 Posts
 Posted 08/01/2009  12:32 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Terror Of Zanarkand to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Here's a pic of the coin in question, I forgot that I had one. I'd love the opinion of the forum :)
Anyone-Ever-Heard-Of-A-TPG-Making-A-Mistake-On-A-Coin?
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BH1964's Avatar
United States
10982 Posts
 Posted 08/01/2009  2:44 pm  Show Profile   Check BH1964's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add BH1964 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It's a "D".
ANA #R3154474
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Bryan1315's Avatar
United States
14454 Posts
 Posted 08/01/2009  4:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bryan1315 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have to say it looks like a D to me also but I am sure they went by some markers or something if there was a question on what branch it came from. Also as was said they are human and humans have to punch in the information for the labels by hand and they do make mistakes
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Conder101's Avatar
United States
17884 Posts
 Posted 08/10/2009  07:58 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Something you need to remember is these type of errors that the TPG's are making are NOT being made by the graders. They are either being made by the "lowly" clerks who open the packages and the type the invoice into the computer, or by the person who is making the submission. The guy entering it into the computer pretty much just enters what he sees on the invoice. He could make a typing mistake, or he can't make out somones poor handwriting on the invoice, or the submitter put the wrong thing on the invoice. (Remember thisdata entry guy may not know ANYTHING about coins.) The grader isn't going to notice that anything is wrong because what he sees is a coin and a sticker with a barcode on it. He just scans the barcode and types a grade into the computer. There is a good chance he has no idea how it is actually listed in the computer. The only person who might have a chance of catching the error is the finalizer who looks at the slabs before they are shipped, and he is probably more concerned to see if the grade seems right.
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BH1964's Avatar
United States
10982 Posts
 Posted 08/10/2009  2:29 pm  Show Profile   Check BH1964's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add BH1964 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Something you need to remember is these type of errors that the TPG's are making are NOT being made by the graders. They are either being made by the "lowly" clerks who open the packages and the type the invoice into the computer, or by the person who is making the submission.


In this instance the difference is a $300 coin or a $6,000 coin. I have to believe there is more scrutiny than you describe.
ANA #R3154474
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biokemist6's Avatar
United States
12437 Posts
 Posted 08/10/2009  5:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add biokemist6 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
What the PCGS Guarantee Does Not Cover
Clerical or "mechanical" errors. PCGS occasionally makes clerical errors in inputting data which is shown on the insert in the PCGS holder; consequently the PCGS Guarantee does not cover obvious clerical errors, what we call "mechanical errors."



Quote:
WARNING: THIS GUARANTEE IS LIMITED.
•The NGC Guarantee does not apply to clerical errors on the label.



Quote:
ANACS Guarantee
This Guarantee does not apply to the following: any coin in a damaged, unsealed, counterfeit or altered ANACS holder; any clerical error(s) as to the description or grade of the coin



Quote:
ICG Guarantee
This ICG Guarantee shall not apply to: (a) any clerical errors with respect to the description or grade of the coin



Quote:
Dominion Grading Service (DGS) Terms & Conditions
DGS will not accept any liability for any coins removed from our holders or for holders that show any signs of tampering, nor for clerical errors. Please check the information completely upon receipt of your coins. Clerical errors will be remedied free of charge.
Edited by biokemist6
08/10/2009 5:40 pm
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BH1964's Avatar
United States
10982 Posts
 Posted 08/10/2009  7:53 pm  Show Profile   Check BH1964's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add BH1964 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Re: biokemist6 and Conder101. I don't see this as a clerical error. A grader has to authenticate the date and mintmark on a key date coin such as this one. Very rarely would a mistake of this magnitude get out.

The OP sent this coin in as a key date "O" per his comments. It came back a "D". It is possible a mistake was made but from his pics I don't believe a mistake was made in this case. If the OP didn't specify a mintmark, then "the lowly clerk" who knows "nothing about coins" just decided it was a "D" and nobody else even looked at it. Right.
ANA #R3154474
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