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1878 8TF VAM 14.16 On Ebay

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SeatedNut's Avatar
United States
2797 Posts
 Posted 08/05/2009  09:26 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add SeatedNut to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
NOT!

I'm sorry, but I'm at work and don't have access to the link, but ebay seller "Elizabeth" listed an 1878 8TF raw Morgan as a VAM 14.16. You could find it by searching VAM 14.16 as there is only one listed. Her coin is a VAM 23, same profile doubling, but not an A1n reverse. I contacted her last evening about this and she was adamant that her coin was a VAM 14.16, even confirming the thin upper 'P' in PLURIBUS.

I'm sure 99% of you wouldn't buy a raw pricey VAM like this with those pictures. This notice is for the possible 1%. Save your money!
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rockdude's Avatar
United States
1807 Posts
 Posted 08/05/2009  10:36 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add rockdude to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for the info.
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SeatedNut's Avatar
United States
2797 Posts
 Posted 08/05/2009  5:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SeatedNut to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Well, I'm home now and had a chance to look at the auction and see if the seller heeded my caution (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...:RTQ:US:1123)...

My email to seller:
Your coin is not a VAM 14.16 it is a VAM 23. Both have a doubled profile, but the top of the 'P' in PLURIBUS is thin on the VAM 23. And there is a HUGE difference in price. The 23 sells for $50 in VF and the 14.16 is $900.

Seller Reply:
I Just went and looked it up on VAM World, I would have to disagree. The doubling is more pronounced under my magnifier, it appears to look more like of the 14.16, instead if the VAM 23, both appears to have the same thin top on the P.

My Follow-up:
I'm just trying to save you some heartache on this listing. The reverse lower tail feather configuration is an 8TF A²/A¹b which is VAM 23. The 14.16 has the A1n reverse and MUST have the die gouge in the lower part of 'N' in UNITED. Please look at these two different lower tail feather groupings and compare with yours. No need to respond ... as I said I'm just trying to help, not argue.

How seller represented this in the auction:

I'm not a VAM expert or coin grader, but looking under my magnifier, & looking at the pictures on VAM World, it appears to me to be a VAM 14.16. But I can't say positively, absolutely it is, but that is what it looks like to me. Someone messaged me that if it is a 14.16 that is worth a considerable amount of money, I did not know this when I listed it, or I would of started with a much greater starting bid, I just listed it this way when I was looking at VAMS. It has very, very pronounced double dating & the funny U on reverse & the doubling of the face & chin, so please be your own judge! -Thank You, Elizabeth

Said seller now goes from confused to SCUMBAG! I will be posting this in the Non-Recommended seller thread.
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SeatedNut's Avatar
United States
2797 Posts
 Posted 08/12/2009  2:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SeatedNut to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
In case anyone is interested ... the same seller has another coin on ebay, an 8TF listed as a VAM 14.5 ... actually it's clearly a VAM 7. Again, huge price differential.

The lesson here is "a little knowledge is dangerous". That VAM 23 in VF (a $35 coin at best) sold for $225. This seller only sees and hears what she wants to hear. She attributes VAMs with one diagnostic and ignores others if they don't fit. If you buy VAMs on ebay learn your stuff and if you want to take a chance, make sure the seller offers a return policy. Of course you'll be out money spent on shipping.

I'll be watching her feedback for the "14.16" to hit. Could be very entertaining.
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SeatedNut's Avatar
United States
2797 Posts
 Posted 09/04/2009  08:09 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SeatedNut to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I did a follow-up last night on this transaction and noted that the seller had her first negative feedback. Yep, it was for this auction and the buyer was not happy. He paid $255 for a $35 coin. The coin was attributable from the photos as a VAM 23 (incorrect reverse for the VAM 14.16) so the buyer could have helped himself, but didn't. He chose to gamble on this based on the seller's hype (ps - and a no return policy). He did get half his money back on a return, so watch for this coin to be re-listed as a VAM 14.16.

I emailed the buyer and let him know I contacted the seller early in the auction and informed her that it was not a VAM 14.16 and directed her to VAMWorld. Hopefully he can use this to file a dispute (item significantly not as described) to recover all his money.

Moral ... do your homework and be very judicious on where you place your trust.
Edited by SeatedNut
09/04/2009 09:12 am
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RFB's Avatar
United States
532 Posts
 Posted 09/04/2009  08:47 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add RFB to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
We seem to all play watchdog on ebay to some extent.

200 spots sounds like a lot of items, but I always have a full hopper. Complete with notes to myself. Fakes, and crooks. Forecasts to see how I do against the market and so on.


Always good to see others doing the same. Great to share the info as it does help others avoid at least SOME of sharks.

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