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 Replies: 8 / Views: 2,394 |
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Pillar of the Community
Turkey
870 Posts |
Hi coinfolks!..
I was wodnering if anyone knows 1806 and 1807 Penny coins of George III are used in Mainland Britan as well as the Colonies.. Are there a difference between those pennies o the mainland and the colonies or basically, just like the Euro, they were used in both directions..
Thanks.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3499 Posts |
molydeii- Usually these coins just stayed in England. Most of the Colonies either had their own currencies issued by the colonial government or they used trade coinage. This trade coinage typically would have been Colonial Spanish 8 Reales.
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New Member
United Kingdom
14 Posts |
Many of these copper coins of George III circulated in other parts of The Empire. The 1797 Cartwheels are a popular example, they were used as "Proclamation Coinage" in Australia from 1800 onwards. For more info about that, please see here: http://www.australian-threepence.co...n-coins.htmlAs for your pennies, many were taken to the States, and I mean many! This was because many people residing in America at the time were Irish or British and so continued using the coinage they were used to. It wasn't just pennies either, the smaller copper denominations were also used: http://www.coinfacts.com/colonial_c...fpennies.htmhttp://www.coinfacts.com/colonial_c...niaCoins.htm"'Colonial Coin' is shorthand for the myriad state, pre-federal, private and foreign coinage issues which circulated in early America." Kindest Regards, Clive. |
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
1295 Posts |
1806/7 pennies were certainly used in Colonial Australia. They have been and still are found on demolition sites around Sydney and in the goldfields around Australia. In the 1820's when the Colony of New South Wales adopted a sterling standard many thousands of pounds worth of worn British coinage was shipped to Australia and it is theorised that heavily circulated pennies and half pennies of 1806 in particular formed a large proportion of these shipments.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3499 Posts |
HistoricCoinage & markn- Really? Wow, this is news to me. So how was it that many British D's and 1/2 D's ended up in North America?
Edited by Archraz
08/29/2009 9:11 pm
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New Member
United Kingdom
14 Posts |
Archraz, They would have been taken over with the settlers of the 18th and 19th Centuries. Not to mention that most of the trade from America would be to Britain and so they would most likely have been paid using British coinage. Then again, there were always fakes being made in North America. "These surreptitious minters produced struck halfpence as light in weight as possible. A regal British halfpence weighed about 150-155 grains, but the imitations averaged only about 110-115 grains, or some 40 grains underweight, thus more coins could be produced per pound of copper. This yielded a substantial profit, as the copper in a full weight regal halfpenny was worth only about half of the face value of the coin. Of course, unlike the legal state authorized mints, these individuals did not pay any royalties to the government. In order to make the coins easier to put into circulation the minters purposefully cut shallow dies so the newly minted coins would lack sharp details and would thus appear worn. They also back dated there products using dates that included: 1747, 1771, 1772 and 1774-1778 as well as using the contemporary (or recent back dates) of 1787 and 1788. Interestingly, legitimate regal halfpence were not minted every year during this period; in fact no legitimate halfpence were produced during 1776-1778 or in 1787 or 1788. It seems the minters did not even try to keep their backdating accurate! Apparently this oversight was either not recognized by the general public or was intentionally overlooked as long as individuals felt the coins would be generally accepted." The site also says: "It seems some regal English halfpence began to appear in America soon after minting began in 1672. It is sometimes thought the earliest known supply of regal coppers to arrive in America was £300 of halfpence and farthings mentioned in The Loyal Impartial Mercury newspaper article of October 2-6, 1682, that was brought to Philadelphia by a group of Quakers. As discussed in the English trade token section it seems more probable these coins were demonitized trade tokens. However, the article did mention that British halfpence and farthings traded for twice their value in America." Reading this well help you understand a bit more about this history: http://www.coins.nd.edu/ColCoin/Col...r.intro.htmlKindest Regards, Clive. |
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Valued Member
Ireland
498 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
 Turkey
870 Posts |
Guys, I owe both of you a thank-you. See, this is why real people is %200 better than Google. :).. I learned a lot about those coins thanks to you. I have a F Cartwheel and a XF- 1807 Penny in my collection, wish there was a way to know which places those little coin guys had been to!:).. It surely would be exciting!.. Thanks again.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3499 Posts |
HistoricCoinage -Thanks for the info and interesting response.
While there is no doubt that British copper coins were brought over to the colonies informally by individuals, and that a lot of fakes (some intending to be counterfeits and some just unofficial colonial issues/interpretations) circulated. I just had never heard of British government officially sending their own coinage to the colonies other than coins minted for that express purpose (i.e. coins minted for the East India Company). I do know for a fact that while many official transactions and deeds of sale within the 13 colonies (especially in the south) used the LSD system as a money of account throughout the eighteenth century, most publications, such as newspapers, only mentioned "Spanish dollars" as any kind of currency of exchange.
It really must be pointed out that the British did not make any provision for a currency within the American colonies due to the fact that they were having monetary troubles as well. This is partially why copper denominations were only minted during certain years, such as 1754 and 1770 -1775 (Yes, I do realize that many 1/2 pennies were minted bearing the date 1754 in subsequent years). These troubles were exacerbated by the fact that many copper 1/2 pence and farthings were melted down due to their bullion value being above face. This only encouraged counterfeiters to melt legitimate coinage and to manufacture underweight fakes. The aforementioned problems as well as other economic factors resulted in the British government releasing some Spanish 8 Reales into circulation as a sort of "relief coinage." This resulted in many Spanish dollars entering circulation, and sans George III counterstamp, from unofficial sources. The implication of this is that while many copper farthings and half pence were produced, there were just not many that would have been on hand to be used in trade with the North American Colonies (Not to mention the fact that the British preferred to acquire North American goods through trade by sending their own manufactures or goods acquired through the Triangular Trade in the East; that 8 Reales were recognized as more of a global trade coinage by the latter half of the 18th century; and that if copper or silver had to be shipped, it was preferable to send it to the East, where it had a proportionately higher value to gold than in the West.)
In the North American Colonies, smaller denominations were also in short supply in circulation, so this is why many of the colonial pieces were minted in imitation of British coppers as well as why 8 Reales were cut up in order to make change.
In essence, there was not much incentive for the British government or Company to ship copper coins to the 13 Colonies, and those coppers which did make it over there from the British Isles were not commonplace in circulation.
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Replies: 8 / Views: 2,394 |
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Posted 08/29/2009 4:04 pm
