1757 Mexico 4 Reales

pfflyer - I may be wrong and I hope I am, but the crown on the left pilar is the Royal Crown with open wings and I believe the 1757 coins were all produced with the Imperial Crown with solid wings. This is a bit out of my normal area of interest so I may be thinking of 8Rs, but iit should be checked.

The coin is beautiful but almost too good to be true.

When that happens I get suspicious. I am slightly bothered by the mint mark superscripts (both o's are doubled) and to my eye it almost appears as if the coin was edged POST strike. There are also a lot of engraving slips which may or may not be correct for the series - I would defer to someone more expert in the series.

Like Archraz I would love to see the edge and I would also add a couple simple questions:

1. Weight to 1/10th gram
2. Number of edge overlaps
3. Ring characteristics
4. Specific Gravity if possible.

I really hope it is not a fake but with the Pillar series more than normal caution must be taken.

Very nice looking coin. The crowns are correct for the date. The Mo subscript is a little odd, but the die appears to have had some wear and damage so it could have been re engraved. There is a break in the shield at about 8 o'clock on the obverse that along with the poor workmanship on the bottom of the crown would give me reason to be careful, but looks good to me, weight is correct and I've seen lots of pillars this color. My area of study is 8's but I've seen my share of 4's. The telling photos are going to be of the edge. But I say at this point, great coin and great detail for a 4 real. Break out the camera and let's see the edge!

I am very glad to hear the filled wings were not used on the 1757. I would defer to others like jfransch for opinions of authenticity on this series. Pillars have never been my thing.

The weight does fall into a range that is acceptable for a 4R with this level of wear.

The edge photos captured the two seams precisely. I presume that the 2 seams (overlaps) are 180 degrees apart - they are of identical length as visible in the pictures.

The edge photos also document a reversed rim mint error. At each overlap the design REVERSES DIRECTION. The open top of the flower faces away from the overlap on both sides of the top photo and the open top faces toward the overlap in the second photo. That is a rather scarce mint error on original Cap and Ray coins - I do not know the frequency of that error on columnario's. I do know (or believe) that more care was taken with the Lotus edge than the later colonial edge on producing "invisible seams". That tendency would logically (at least in my mind) cause the reversal error to be caught quickly as it was on the engrailed edges of the Cap and Rays.

Is the coin struck with a die rotation? If the photos are taken correctly there a rotation and that is critical. I ask this because the edge photos allow precise location of the overlaps in the edge design in relation to the faces of the coin. The top photo shows the overlap occurring between the letters S and P of Hispan (Obverse) shifted slightly toward the P. The second photo shows the second overlap as located above the rosette to the right side of the date with a slight shift toward the 7 (Reverse). The Pillar coins used a medallic axis so the overlaps are NOT at 180 degrees unless there is a die rotation between Obverse and Reverse. If the photo of the reverse is tilted to show the rotation - the overlaps would be approximately correct.

Perhaps jfransch will comment on the edge pictures.

From the website "columnarios.com" the following
"Always examine the edging. The real columnario has floral edging of made up of about 40 laurel leafs and is very difficult to replicate. Note that from 1762 on the leaves always pointed in the same direction. Before that, the leaves switched direction halfway around the coin."

Let me also comment that in my experience, only Mo and Guatemala show the reversing designs. For Mo, there are pre 1762 examples with all running one way, all running the other way and the half and half such as this coin. I see nothing odd on the edge. As for die rotation, I just reviewed 50 8's in my collection that I happen to have out of the SDB and found slight die rotation on 4 of them. The die rotations all occur on Ferd and Carlos pillars, I found none on any of the Phillip coins.
Based on the photos posted and the weight as reported I have to say I am jealous..that is one sweet looking 4 reales!

Thanks for all the comments. It is nice to be reassured especially since the coin
did cost a lot of money. What do you think of getting it certified? I have considered
that. But it is nice to have a raw coin too since you can see the edges and
easily weigh it.

Keep it raw, or if it's peace of mind you are after, have it sent to one of the big three then crack it back out. 2 of the 3 will still certify it even if they determine the color is from smoke or some other chemical reaction. Did you buy from a dealer with a lifetime "genuine" warranty?

Nice!