Tapaulick,
You didn't mention the price tag presented to you but on the 1/1 variety I would hold back. I am captivated with pre 08 coppers but have found that it is always better to practice self control on the more common coins. Granted ANY of the coppers of this era are considered rare, but they are still available in numbers if you are on the 17XX copper hunt. The PE's in 97 are usually what you find when on the hunt for the others. So before you jump on a coin you might not be happy with consider your long term collection.
Like someone else speculated above, the pre 08's ARE generally given a little more wiggle room for small dings and wear patterns, but damage is damage. It destroys the grade. Sometimes when in a situation where it is isolated for instance on a reverse, or say hidden in the hair it can be somewhat overlooked and you can still enjoy the coin at a real bargain against the market. However when damage is so significant it begins to actually distort the fields or wear pattern and take away from the coin...grading is out the window. Damage to the figure's face is a huge turn off to most collectors. Any bends or warps that effect wear patterns really hurt.
Book value, Shmook value on old coppers, just the pulse of the market is what early coppers go by. You walk into a show and people are drooling over old golds and think you are nuts for chasing the coppers. Plenty of people like them, but few of us actively chase them for purchase.
A solid G in a 97 will still sell for around 300 even up to 400 but only to someone that actively collects. It is such a niche for that books are almost silly. Fantastic for reference and education but never for pricing. Drop it to AG and the same 97 will be lucky to see 75-100 unless someone really wants or needs it for a typeset, or brand new to collecting etc.
I dont think it would quite drop into the dreaded F02. Yes you can read the date and identify the coin but it shows as abused. Normal wear no matter how extreme is much preferred to intentional damage or graffiti where the wallet is concerned. Coin in hand is really needed to make such assumptions but I can only assume the picture is with intention of sale so it is presented about as good as it CAN look. So this is what I am basing my opinions on. Sort of a mix of experience, visual, and speculation about objective outside opinion on such a coin. AG is most probably a very safe bet but it is all too easy to fall in love with a coin and lose your objectivity against competitive pricing. In the 17XX's it seems that each and every coin has so much character that features and flaws should be evaluated on a coin by coin basis instead of blanket bracket grading.
I do think the coin in pictures could probably achieve AG when going just by details but the damage negates almost ALL actual resale value or investment. It has rim damage AND facial dings that almost look like graffiti. All depends on what mood the graders are in. Something to keep in mind is the PE's are the bottom stepchild of the 97s so they are often treated most harsh. Not fair or accurate for such scrutiny but I am sure we can agree it still happens. They often get the bum end of the slab compared to their LE/GE brothers.
Now I do apologize about perhaps sidetracking the thread with my own spouts but I would like to mention one more thing. As one collector to another please recognise your span in the series. I adore the coins and will continue to spend many more years seeking them out. But with each one you add to your stash you must remember that they do have price tags attached.
F02/AG rarely hold their value for resale. Books are useless except for baseline awareness. Collectors for sets are a finicky crowd. Some like myself grab as many as possible,...but many wont touch a AG coin. This dramatically effects the price vs demand position when/if you ever resell. Reselling for upgrades, for thinning the herd, for freeing up finance for larger purchases etc etc. Even if only a few dozen coins purchased for 200+ each but then they only have a resale of 50 a piece is a dismal proposition at best. We all swear we won't sell our collections but never hurts to still use best practice of spending as wisely as possible for long term.
Try to buy single coins in grades that are painful to your wallet but hit the level of condition/price advantage. You will get much more enjoyment from problem free coins. Much more resale, much more experience and more fun with varieties when they themselves are more bold and convenient to enjoy/show.
Sorry if your simple question was answered by my long opinionated rant, but I hope it helped.
Welcome to the boards.
-RFB
Edited by RFB
09/22/2009 05:44 am
Posted 09/21/2009 11:58 am
the net grade is lower than G4 and there's rim damage too.
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