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 Replies: 10 / Views: 1,829 |
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Valued Member
United States
265 Posts |
How many collectors of Australian decimal coinage get their coins certified? What service company do you use?
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
1040 Posts |
Getting coins slabbed is pretty much a North American thing. Not many people here trust slabbing services because the grading systems are different and people here think your coins over there are way over graded when making direct comparisons.
For instance, EF40 would grade to only VF here, as we use the subjective grading system, not the Sheldon system. An Aussie collector who sees Ef40 simply assumes it is graded Ef the same as in Australia. MS coins imply uncirculated here, which isn't the case. MS64 being the first Sheldon grade that would equate to uncirculated here. Many Aussies have been burned badly because of this discrepancy and simply don't trust the grades on the slabs.
This is further exacerbated by some unscrupulous sellers here making ridiculous claims that MS64 coins are choice uncirculated, MS60 as uncirculated, AU55 as almost uncirculated. Our grading systems are different, and there are no Aussie third party grading companies to have coins slabbed to Australian grades.
Having said that, there are a couple of dealers here that are selling a lot of slabbed Aussie coins. The two that I know of both use PCGS. Of these two, one is honest and equates the Sheldon grades to Aussie grades. The other lets the grade on the slab do the talking for him. Enough said. Both these dealers, as far as I know, only slab pre-decimal coins.
You also have to figure the costs involved. Our decimal coins are very in-expensive compared to the cost of slabbing. Only a few coins would be worth slabbing. Are you talking about our circulating currency or NCLT? (NIFC)
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
1295 Posts |
Sorry Sean but I must strongly disagree with some of your blanket claims about slabbed coins. I do agree with what you suggest about some sellers assigning a adjectival grade based on the numerical grade alone but then you go on to do exactly the same thing. So to say that only MS64 coins would achieve the UNC grade is just mis-information of the highest order. I have seen MS64 coins that would grade from UNC to Gem under the Australian grading system. I can also tell you that I absolutely have seen MS63 coins that would be classed as UNC by Australian dealers. I absolutely have seen raw coins classed as unc by Australian dealers (including the German dealer here in Australia who is such an opponent to slabbing) get graded as MS63. Perhaps you should buy some UNC coins from respected Australian dealers (including the German gentlemen in question) and get them slabbed and see what grades they come back as. But of course when you do buy these 'UNC' coins from Australian dealers make sure they are not cleaned or fiddled with because PCGS wont slab those. And yes, a number of respectable Australian coin dealers do sell cleaned coins and not disclose them as such.
Edited by markn
10/30/2009 5:15 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
515 Posts |
I personally like PCGS slabbed coins and am in the process of slabbing with PCGS a lot of my collection. Having the grade on the slab is a great place to start when deciding if that coin is for me. I will ALWAYS then view the coin and make my own decision based on what I think the grade to be and the eye appeal, detracting marks or spots and the price of course. I have a big problem with coins being stored incorrectly and the slabs offer fantastic protection from the elements and potential damage. The coin in the slab is also guaranteed to be a genuine coin and guaranteed not to have been cleaned. I have been caught and bought cleaned (unslabbed)coins from reputable Australian dealers and won't fall for that again, it has cost me too much money. I believe PCGS to be the better TPGS as I have found some NGC slabs to be overgraded. But then you always have to view the coin under loupe and make your own decision. If buying over the internet I will always notify the seller that I may potentially use their return policy if the coin isn't for me.
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
1040 Posts |
Mark, you are right. I have made blanket claims that I would recommend to someone new to the hobby so they don't get burned, which isn't what this topic is about. I apologise for that. It just makes me angry when I see coins that definitely aren't what a seller claims they are simply because of the grade on the slab. A collector who has experience and can grade for him/herself can make decisions based upon that knowledge. What about a new collector? I think that for US coins, there isn't really an issue, gradings are pretty consistent, you may be able to get 1 more point if you re-submit the coin. For Aussie coins there seems to be too many inconsistencies. Or has it been too long since I have looked at slabbed coins? I am more than willing to be corrected if I am off base here. Edit to add that the most attractive part of slabbing to me is the guarantee of a genuine, original coin. Edited by latman100
10/30/2009 11:44 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
1295 Posts |
Hi Sean, I see undergraded and over graded coins in slabs, nothing glaringly obvious. I see the same things in dealers books too. I dont really know what happens with US coins but I know there are people who make a good living out of cracking out coins and resubmitting them for a higher grade so I guess it goes on with those too. You probably should have a look at some newer slabs, I've not been unhappy with the grades on any of my recent submissions apart from them calling perth copper artificially toned. Mark |
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
1040 Posts |
I would be a lot happier with the whole slabbing process if there was an Australian company or two doing it, using Australian grading standards and terms. I understand Walter doesn't do it anymore?
Wow, just checked his website. Just about everything is PCGS slabbed. All of a sudden I feel like an ostrich. I think I will take your advice and check out a few new slabs Mark.
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
3831 Posts |
Slabs don't necessarily guarantee that the coins are genuine as there are times when TPGs don't know what they are dealing with or the coins are high quality counterfeits or the slabs themselves are counterfeit.
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Valued Member
 United States
265 Posts |
There was a big story here recently about a guy getting busted for putting counterfits in PCGS holders, so the TPG's are not safe either. Probably why I am sticking to modern coins. I could see that the US companies(NGC and PCGS) might have some trouble with foreign coins. I am sure that they employ individuals that have some expertise in the areas, but probably not enough if a bunch of collectors sent their stuff in. I think an AU branch of PCGS or NGC would do well overseas. I am sure that it would save on shipping times!LOL! I will say from personal experience and from talking with other collectors that they have been very tough on grades lately, at least with US coinage. Coins slabbed at this time, if you could tell the difference, would have upgrade potential in the future if resubmitted. There are tons of posts on both the NGC and PCGS forums that discuss this. What are the Australian grades? What system is used for grading if you dont use the sheldon system? I am confused cause I would consider a MS63 coin an attractive coin but having lots of marks. I would venture a guess that if you bought a roll from of uncirculated coins here in the US that the average grade would be either MS63 or MS64. The mint just doesn't take care of things once they are made. |
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
1040 Posts |
The Sheldon system is North American. Different countries use different systems. Our grades are Poor, Good, Very Good, Fine, Very Fine, Extra Fine, Almost Uncirculated, Uncirculated, Choice Uncirculated and Gem. There is no number assigned to each grade, but in-between grades can be used. For example, almost Very Fine, Very Fine, good Very Fine, almost Extra Fine, Extra Fine etc. The cross over from Sheldon to Australian grading isn't exact. You can't just assume XF40 is Extra Fine here. The link below is to the Australian Numismatic Dealers Association grading guide. Another note is we don't assign grades to decimal proof coins. A proof is a proof. Pre-decimal proofs often have the designation FDC (Fleur de Coin), or aFDC or other notations as to condition. http://www.anda.com.au/documents/re...%20coins.pdf |
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Valued Member
United States
265 Posts |
Sean, that helps alot with the decimal coinage and thanks for the link and for the other things you have mentioned!
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Replies: 10 / Views: 1,829 |
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Posted 10/30/2009 5:14 pm
