Ebay - German Counterfeits

The coin does look odd.

Hello,

These are all opinions ONLY..without any justification.... it is just : oh, lets say something here...
have any of you EVER seen this coin, NOT an Image... Coin in hand?
IF not, what do you base your opinion on?
A forgery has certain recognizable marks. OR not...!
But just to say it looks odd or does not look right is certainly NOT a justifiable opinion or reason to stamp it with the big F.
Have any of you really read Volker's (Weege) books? Or have you just looked at the pictures?
while it is true that the current price is a bit low, it could well happen seconds before the end to be close to correct.
How many of you have actually hoped nobody else would bit on an expensive coin when you were the high bidder?
it is also true that here are some forgeries known of this coins.
BUT, if one apple in a sack is bad... does that mean all apples in that sack are bad?
I am not looking for troubles here with any of you... but there has to be more then just to say: I agree!!!
so what if it turns out to be real? will you all apologize to the seller for tarnishing his reputation?
Perhaps he had NO idea, as happened to me when I re listed a German gold coin way back. it was a little known and extremely well made forgery which, interestingly, had been accepted many times by well known dealers and auctioneers as being AUTHENTIC.
I was told and asked the question later by an expert:It is a shame, but do we really want to know after all these years and cause an uproar? he told me that even the numismatic sections of large banks would confirm it as authentic.......plus others..
beats me... but perhaps has merit...
No hard feelings here please...

Snowman, unless one knows about a coin, absolutely sure, yes an opinion is great and very helpful.
BUT just to guess about some, "whatever" on the coin because "it does not look right" is absolutely unfair and does NOT serve any possible buyer or seller, UNLESS you have very solid reasons. However, if it is YOUR coin, it is a different story to invite comments.
I happen to be familiar with this coin ( not the one on ebay), and others , fakes and real.
And NO, I will not go into any further discussions on it... UNLESS I have "coin in hand" and can compare to the real thing.
But just to "speculate" that it might.....,serves NOBODY and is not a fair discussion.
The coin posted sold for $407 which is about 50% of its Value in europe at auction. A great buy, because it is NOT a fake. I will post some pix soon, fake and real of other European gold coins... and I will invite facts and speculation then... maybe during the holidays..

No hard feelings my friend
HHB

Snowman.. I think you do not get it....
how would you like it if someone would suggest one of your listed coins, assuming you do have some listed, could be a fake...... NO foundation for it... just a hint, or a maybe.., without any further proof or just even a substantiated hint of a proof.

would you like it...?
and NO, it was NOT my listing.
the way the system is supposed to work is that everyone is FAIR...and objective.
otherwise we loose the purpose...
for me this is enough on this subject, as I do not need to continue with it. I am aware of the facts... Perhaps fairness and objectivity is not what is wanted here.
HHB

If the seller did not want the legitimacy of his coin called into question, then he should have done more to demonstrate its authenticity. He could have given a weight and diameter. He could have produced pictures of the rims. He could have made his previous listings open to future customers. If the coin is indeed authentic, then a lot of potential buyers passed up an outrageous bargain. I know for a fact that coin dealers dredge ebay for potential deals just like this auction presented. There has to be a reason that a potential 100% profit was passed up.

I've just actually noticed the 'creases' in the hair - on the 'questionable' coin, they match exactly with the falsch as displayed by Weege; whereas the original depicted by Weege is very different.

Does anyone else think the shape of the face/head in whole is different too?

Now after reading Snowman's thoughts too, I was drawn to the Denticals; he really has a point. Most noticable for me is the alder-seite, immediately above '1877' (and before any one points out the difference between the 7's, no need; I've seen genuine 1877 5M's with different 7's - dont ask why, but the 7's just seem to be different!).

Uneven wear; hard one to call as I do not know much about the hardness of Au/Cu in alloy in this ratio, but it is interesting that the points of wear are EXACTLY opposite on each face of the coin and do NOT seem to affect the Symbols adjacent to the wear (ie, look at 'MARK' and 'CHE' in Deutsches)...

I dont know, I dont have the coin in hard to weight, measure, test for conductivity/reflectivity and put under a microsope, but I hope the person who win's it is happy with it! I wouldnt be!

You cited your reasons for questioning this one, and backed it up with some excellent documentation
Since I don't collect these, I went over to Heritage auctions and looked at a few. I do see the differences you point out.
As a rule, whenever I see a raised mark on a coin that's not seen on certified coins, that raises flags.
The mushy dentils and lumpy fields are also odd for a coin that is well-struck on examples I saw--valid grounds for discussion, imo.