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 Replies: 31 / Views: 22,022 |
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Valued Member
Greece
70 Posts |
Is this the ''dot over upper scroll'' variety? Thanks in advance, Georgios  Edited by Georgioscoins
02/26/2010 8:42 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
1040 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1523 Posts |
Latman. Unfortunately while living in Oz for 8 years I never really thought about collecting coinage there.I do still have ex-family relations that still love me so just wondering if the collectibility is there for old coinage or more so for error stuff. This looks to be a special coinage similar to the Canadian dot group. Correct?
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Valued Member
 Greece
70 Posts |
Thanks for the reply Latman. According to the link you gave me, in a sample of 202 1920 pennies only 3 (1.5%)of the upper scroll variety have been found. I also checked with Krause catalog only to find that this variety is not listed. Georgios http://www.freewebs.com/georgioscoins/ |
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
1040 Posts |
Halfwitty, Australian pre-decimal coins are very collectable and can command astronomical prices. The 1930 penny is the worlds most valuable bronze coin, an example in VG would set you back about $15,000 (catalogue is $19,000). And even Georgioscoins 1920 penny variety here is worth upwards of $150.
As for the Canadian dot group, correct me if I am wrong, but that was to signify coins that were struck in 1937, even though they were dated 1936 due to the Canadian mint not having dies made for 1937.
The dots on the 1919 and 1920 Australian pennies are actually mintmarks.
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Valued Member
Greece
70 Posts |
I have another interesting Australian Penny. It is a ''1942(b)without I'' in XF, anyone have a clue of its ''rarity'' and value? Latman?
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Valued Member
Greece
70 Posts |
An auction with the ''dot over upper scroll'' variety just ended: ebay Item number: 120532016177 . It looks similar grade as mine. Auction closed at $135, pretty close to what Latman said the variety worth. I guess the seller could get something more if he was a bit more patient and listed it with a fixed price as ''buy it now''. Here are some more findings from older auctions: $179 - Item number: 120522075560$151 - http://www.oztion.com.au/buy/auctio...emid=9402310 |
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Valued Member
Greece
70 Posts |
Here is some useful info about the 1920 variety:
''The dot above top scroll is by far the scarcest of the 1920 dot variety pennies and possibly second scarcest of the eight 1920 die combination varieties. The true mintage is difficult to ascertain but it appears that just one die was used and given how often they are found, a figure in the region of 20,000 seems reasonable''.
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New Member
Australia
6 Posts |
Sorry Where abouts is the dot? I am new to this and looking through my penny collection.
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Moderator
 Australia
16806 Posts |
Tiny dots were placed by the mint either above or below the scrolls that appear above ONE and below PENNY. There are three theoretically possible locations for the "dots" to appear on pennies of 1919 and 1920:  Location number 2 on this photo is never actually a host site for a dot; you should never find a coin with a dot there. The dots were intended as crude mintmarks, with dies with the position 4 dot sent to Melbourne, and dies with the position 3 dot sent to Sydney. Missing dots, dots in other places, or coins with multiple dots, are "errors", either fortuitously located die chips or a mistake on the part of the mint worker responsible for putting the dots there. For 1920, the five known possible dot combinations are (with catalogue prices in Fine): No dots at all: slightly scarce, $100 Position 1 only: rare, $450 Positions 1 and 4: scarce, $125 Position 3 only: common, $20 Position 4 only: common, $20. For 1919, the only other date where the "dot system" was used, the three possibilities reported are: No dots at all: common, $7. Positions 1 and 4: scarce, $135 Position 4 only: common, $7. Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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New Member
Australia
6 Posts |
Thanks Sap. I straight away had to check and my 1920s don't have any dots nor my 1919.
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Valued Member
Australia
363 Posts |
Something else to consider is whether it has a London or India Obverse. The coin at the top of the thread is an India Die. Also, to make it more complicated, the base letters on the reverse of the coin can be either flat or curved.
So there are more combinations of 1919 & 1920 pennies. Some are VERY hard to find.
Cheers Simon.
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
852 Posts |
Hello, I'm new to this forum (but not to collecting). My specialty is the Australian pre decimal penny and especially variety collecting. I have to correct some of the details that others have listed here.
Firstly to spg1(Simon): if a 1920 penny has curved base letters it can only be a dot below coin. All dot over top scroll coins are Indian die reverse.
To Kosmikd: the 1920 penny is notorious for the difficulty in spotting the dots. Over 70% of average grade coins have no visible dot, yet over 90% of reverse dies had a dot placed on them (wear on coins, filled dies and die wear means you often see no dot visible).
To Sap: your position 2 does not exist.
to Latman: the dots are not true mintmarks but marks used to identify batches of dies.
Never rely on catalogues for details of mintages or the true value of a coin. The number minted is often listed at around 9 million but this figure is wrong as until the last quarter of 1920 they were minting 1919 dated coins. they didn't stop minting 1920 dated coins until at least late in 1921 (and possibly 1922) with dies transferred between the 3 mints.
The 1920 double dot is about 10 times more common than the dot over top only but it frequently has a filled bottom dot with many thus mistaken for the rarer dot over top only. Your coin Georgioscoins is however a genuine dot over top scroll coin (the telltale of a double dot is to look above the W for a flaw).
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10045 Posts |
Sap, that's a very helpful diagram  Nice coin Georgios! |
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New Member
United States
2 Posts |
  I have a 1920 London version with no mint marks. Anyone know what this may be worth? I counted the beads and it is 177 to confirm it was minted in london. Anyone have any advice. |
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
852 Posts |
Hi Fliporfly. Your coin is a 1920 dot under scroll London (AKA English) penny. Although no dot is visible on your coin (a common occurrence)it has a tell tale die flaw just visible on the obverse between the letters IN of IND that is found on one die pairing of a dot under.
As to value the coin is of average wear but obviously horribly cleaned. Perhaps $20 to $30
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Replies: 31 / Views: 22,022 |
Posted 02/20/2010 4:56 pm
