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Posted 06/18/2006 1:06 pm
Peter and CiScO et al--
You both have valid points regarding Alan and the concept of the ENRB, but I prefer to look at both issues from a different viewpoint. First, no argument that Alan is a controversial figure although I have seen nothing to indicate that he is dishonest or unethical; however, even though he is the ENRB founder, he has made it clear he does not want to lead the group and is actively pursuing persons to step forward and replace him in a leadership role (don't look at me; I'm still on a trial run with the group and just don't have the time due to other irons in the fire. Also, by the time ebay's pages load, I have lost my train of thought or interest). An observation: people who start and run activist groups are almost always going to be loaded with personality with positive, obnoxious, strong, and negative characteristics (such as arrogance which I personally cannot stand) and will ruffle feathers with those who find overbearing personalities more than they are willing to take. For this reason, I can overlook shortcomings in most people if they have good intentions, are willing to work hard toward a goal, are honest and open, are talented and patient enough to overcome hurdles, and are willing to follow through with a task. The jury may still be out on Alan Van Arsdale, but I think his concept for ENRB is well-conceived and deserves a chance.
Second, I also question the long-term effectiveness of such a group, especially since its host is ebay itself thus bringing into question the ENRB's credibility. There is no doubt that a fundamental part of the problem is ebay itself and its reluctance to actively pursue the worst of the fraudsters such as (for coins) estatedoctor (husband and wife) who deserve serious jail time. However, while I do not tilt at windmills, I think the notion of what amounts to a certification board for common ebay coin sellers has at least an iota of a chance to succeed and I am willing to invest a measured amount of time to give it this chance, especially during its initial stages. I am unable and unwilling to see a good idea wither away because persons write it off at its onset without at least tacitly supporting it. Few of us are higher level professional dealers/sellers who work at the levels of millions of dollars per month or year; we simply cannot afford the cost to become ANA- or PNG-certified dealers. The ENRB provides the chance for the average or small-time dealer to become certified as long as he/she prescribes and adheres to a stated code of ethics without incurring major costs. Further, although ebay has not as yet interfered with the ENRB group, the above-mentioned Yahoo Group was partly established to counterbalance any potential ebay influence might attempt on ENRB.
Third, there will always be a certain number of ethically-challenged sellers and a multitude of ignorant IQ-challenged buyers to be defrauded by these sellers. This is true in all walks of life and is not restricted to coins. Nothing anyone can do to change human nature, but certain controls can be placed at the supplier level, in this instance ebay coin sellers to at least minimize their illicit activities. I know of no other organization which has attempted seller registration at ebay levels (I could be wrong on this). (BTW, COINAF is an enforcement and action organization; we do not contemplate seller registration at this time.)
Fourth, the notion that CCF create its own version of an ENRB is beyond the scope and function of CCF as it was envisioned and created by Susan and Bobby. We are a discussion group consisting of a very wide variety and scale of interests in coins ranging from fulltime dealers to persons who found a couple interesting coins in their change. To attempt and maintain such a venture as a function of CCF would require more time that most of us have. Also, CCF maintains a Sticky on "Recommended Sellers" and "Discourage Sellers" in the ebay Forum section which is probably as far as we want to go in this direction.
Last, as implied earlier, I am not going to defend Alan VanArsdale as a person; I don't know him and our paths have never before crossed. However, the ENRB concept seems worthy of defense at this time and I do not see how the man's personality has any bearing on the ENRB, a cause worthy of support which should be taken separately from its founder. The only way the ENRB is going to work is if a large percentage of coin sellers join the group and work at making it succeed.
You both have valid points regarding Alan and the concept of the ENRB, but I prefer to look at both issues from a different viewpoint. First, no argument that Alan is a controversial figure although I have seen nothing to indicate that he is dishonest or unethical; however, even though he is the ENRB founder, he has made it clear he does not want to lead the group and is actively pursuing persons to step forward and replace him in a leadership role (don't look at me; I'm still on a trial run with the group and just don't have the time due to other irons in the fire. Also, by the time ebay's pages load, I have lost my train of thought or interest). An observation: people who start and run activist groups are almost always going to be loaded with personality with positive, obnoxious, strong, and negative characteristics (such as arrogance which I personally cannot stand) and will ruffle feathers with those who find overbearing personalities more than they are willing to take. For this reason, I can overlook shortcomings in most people if they have good intentions, are willing to work hard toward a goal, are honest and open, are talented and patient enough to overcome hurdles, and are willing to follow through with a task. The jury may still be out on Alan Van Arsdale, but I think his concept for ENRB is well-conceived and deserves a chance.
Second, I also question the long-term effectiveness of such a group, especially since its host is ebay itself thus bringing into question the ENRB's credibility. There is no doubt that a fundamental part of the problem is ebay itself and its reluctance to actively pursue the worst of the fraudsters such as (for coins) estatedoctor (husband and wife) who deserve serious jail time. However, while I do not tilt at windmills, I think the notion of what amounts to a certification board for common ebay coin sellers has at least an iota of a chance to succeed and I am willing to invest a measured amount of time to give it this chance, especially during its initial stages. I am unable and unwilling to see a good idea wither away because persons write it off at its onset without at least tacitly supporting it. Few of us are higher level professional dealers/sellers who work at the levels of millions of dollars per month or year; we simply cannot afford the cost to become ANA- or PNG-certified dealers. The ENRB provides the chance for the average or small-time dealer to become certified as long as he/she prescribes and adheres to a stated code of ethics without incurring major costs. Further, although ebay has not as yet interfered with the ENRB group, the above-mentioned Yahoo Group was partly established to counterbalance any potential ebay influence might attempt on ENRB.
Third, there will always be a certain number of ethically-challenged sellers and a multitude of ignorant IQ-challenged buyers to be defrauded by these sellers. This is true in all walks of life and is not restricted to coins. Nothing anyone can do to change human nature, but certain controls can be placed at the supplier level, in this instance ebay coin sellers to at least minimize their illicit activities. I know of no other organization which has attempted seller registration at ebay levels (I could be wrong on this). (BTW, COINAF is an enforcement and action organization; we do not contemplate seller registration at this time.)
Fourth, the notion that CCF create its own version of an ENRB is beyond the scope and function of CCF as it was envisioned and created by Susan and Bobby. We are a discussion group consisting of a very wide variety and scale of interests in coins ranging from fulltime dealers to persons who found a couple interesting coins in their change. To attempt and maintain such a venture as a function of CCF would require more time that most of us have. Also, CCF maintains a Sticky on "Recommended Sellers" and "Discourage Sellers" in the ebay Forum section which is probably as far as we want to go in this direction.
Last, as implied earlier, I am not going to defend Alan VanArsdale as a person; I don't know him and our paths have never before crossed. However, the ENRB concept seems worthy of defense at this time and I do not see how the man's personality has any bearing on the ENRB, a cause worthy of support which should be taken separately from its founder. The only way the ENRB is going to work is if a large percentage of coin sellers join the group and work at making it succeed.
