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Really Confused On Grading!

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benchede's Avatar
United States
112 Posts
 Posted 02/23/2010  10:18 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add benchede to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Just got into collecting a year ago, and I just recently completed my 13 coin collection on CC Morgans. The MS grading system we use for Morgans is fairly easy, but now I'm into the silver eagles and I see the normal MS70 and now the different PF69/PF70/PF69UC/PF70UC, and my mind starts to buckle. I'm trying to get the best coin condition for future "demand" and I'm not sure which "state" is the best.
Example: I see some MS69's more costly than PF69's and some PF70's more costly than MS70's, let alone all the confusion on the cameo's.
Can someone straighten me out using "simple-terms"? I understand that the term "PROOF" is a manufacturing term only and not a grade, but where does "CAMEO" come in? Let me sum this all up in one word,
"HELP".
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Adam_E's Avatar
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4846 Posts
 Posted 02/23/2010  10:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Adam_E to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
cameo is the whiter stuff on the faces of the coins, look t a proof quarter and a regular quarter, you will see that the face is much neater and has the satin finish(cameo).
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Adam_E's Avatar
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4846 Posts
 Posted 02/23/2010  10:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Adam_E to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
oh and PF70UC is the best grade you mentioned
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BH1964's Avatar
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10982 Posts
 Posted 02/24/2010  02:18 am  Show Profile   Check BH1964's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add BH1964 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
...but where does "CAMEO" come in?


From the CCF Glossary on the left side of this screen.

Cameo
The term applied to coins, usually Proofs and prooflike coins, that have frosted devices and lettering that contrast with the fields. When this is deep the coins are said to be "black and white" cameos. Occasionally frosty coins have "cameo" devices though they obviously do not contrast as dramatically with the fields as the cameo devices of Proofs do. Specifically applied by PCGS to those 1950 and later Proofs that meet cameo standards (CAM).
ANA #R3154474
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benchede's Avatar
United States
112 Posts
 Posted 02/24/2010  10:45 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add benchede to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Let me see if I have this right: proof and cameo are just a "make-up", like a cosmetic to enhance the looks.
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biokemist6's Avatar
United States
12437 Posts
 Posted 02/24/2010  12:22 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add biokemist6 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Proof is a specific method of manufacturing coins. Specially prepared dies are used and the coins are struck more than once with higher than normal striking pressure. Cameo can be an effect on Proof coins. It deals with the absolute contrast between the fields and devices and the name comes from the black and white piece of jewelry-
Really-Confused-On-Grading!

For the typical Brilliant Proofs(all shiny, no contrast) of the 1930s-60s, Cameo Proofs only came from the first few strikes with a fresh pair of dies and because of their very limited nature are quite valuable. Since the early-mid 1970s, Proofs have been intentionally minted in a Cameo style and you should expect current Proofs to be DCAM/UCAM. Current dies are prepared by masking the fields and micro-bead blasting the devices to produce the frosted effect with the fields being polished to a high gloss with diamond paste. Previous methods of creating the cameo effect on a die have involved chemical etching of the devices.
Edited by biokemist6
02/24/2010 12:27 pm
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Bryan1315's Avatar
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14454 Posts
 Posted 02/24/2010  4:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bryan1315 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
as in the cameo pin in the picture above the cameo is frosted appearance of the devices. Not makeup because this is done at the mint and not done out side the mint, it is the way the dies are prepared. This can be seen on most modern proofs but there are some older MS coins that show this also and these coins are usually highly sought after
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