| Author |
 Replies: 15 / Views: 1,924 |
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
689 Posts |
I was just wondering why it is largly considered bad to clean your. why can this lower value? I know useing brushes and things like that can scratch the surface but what exactly do dips and other things like that do?
|
|
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
4846 Posts |
it diminishes value up to 90%! it does this because the original mint luster is no longer there. it can also be easily identified as a cleaned coin.
|
|
Pillar of the Community
 United States
689 Posts |
is lustera big part of the grade of a coin?
|
|
Bedrock of the Community
United States
12437 Posts |
Yes, luster is a big part of the grade when dealing with AU and above grades. Cleaning in the numismatic sense is a damaging process, the surface metal is physically altered in a detrimental manner. Conservation is different because it only removes surface contaminants without disturbing the metal.
E-Z-Est or Jeweluster aka "coin dip", is a mixture of thiourea and sulfuric acid and it is used to remove toning. A few select coins can be helped by dipping, having the eye appeal dramatically improved, but many more coins are ruined by overdipping. Because the dip is an acidic solution, it will start stripping the surface of the metal if left in contact too long. Removal of heavy toning will leave dull spots on the coin and dip residue not rinsed off can create telltale staining over time.
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
4846 Posts |
it does actually wear the coin down. even professionally dipped coins can be identified. so if its dirty, don't clean it, if its valuable, don't clean it, if you think its valuable, don't know if its valuable, don't clean it, if its not valuable, don't clean it. NEVER clean a coin, EVER!
Edited by Adam_E
03/04/2010 11:15 pm
|
|
Bedrock of the Community
United States
10982 Posts |
A good dip not detectable by anyone. Most classic U.S. silver coins, in Mint State condition, have been dipped if they are brilliant. Luster remains strong after a professional dipping. Dips like E-Z-Est have been used for decades on millions of coins and will continue to be used and slabbed problem free by major TPG because they cannot tell the difference. If you are inexperienced then don't dip your coins. Also never dip a copper coin. |
|
Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts |
The majpr problem with cleaning a coin is similar to cleaning anything that is old. If you watch the Antique Road Show on TV you will hear them constantly say how people ruin Antiques by cleaning them. Imagine cleaning a 2,000 year old Mummy for instance.
As anything old gets older it also accumulates dirt, tarnishes, corrosions, toning, etc. On coins this is cause by the combination of the coins metal and miscellaneous outside substances such as Moisture, Oxygen, Chlorine and many, many more. Cleaning those coins will remove those new substances but will also take off some of the original metal. Same with most Antiques where some cleaners will actually ruin older wooded items.
Yes you can make them look pretty but if a portion of the original is lost, so is much of it's value.
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
4333 Posts |
I have to disagree with never cleaning a coin. I have dug lots of (silver) coins, non key date, that I clean with baking soda or a dip. One coin in particular, a Morgan dollar, actually came out of the ground brown in color. In fact, when I posted pictures, some replied that is was counterfeit. I proceeded to carefully clean it, and slowly the silver appeared. It is now much more presentable; and those that saw the "after" pics withdrew their negative comments about the coin. How are you going to hurt the value of a non-key dug coin by cleaning? As far as junk silver goes, one will not damage it's value if it is cleaned. I dip lots of halves, quarters, dimes, etc, because they are going into my collection, and I know that I'm not hurting their value; they are never going to be worth big bucks, ever. Just my 2 cents..... When I listen to LED ZEPPELIN...so do my neighbors...
Roll hunting since '77
Dirt fishing since '72
|
|
Moderator
 United States
23522 Posts |
Quote:
How are you going to hurt the value of a non-key dug coin by cleaning? Dug coins are a whole 'nuther animal, and the opinion following does not apply to them. I address the original post only. Originality is key. That's all there is to it. Any act which changes either what the Mint did with the coin, or what has happened during normal use since (in the case of circulated coins), violates the Golden Rule of Numismatics. This is not negotiable. If you physically alter the coin, regardless of intent, you're wrong. The whole point of what we're doing here is to preserve these shiny things for future generations, and if we mess with them, eventually somebody will dissolve them entirely. It's simple. If you present me two stunning identical Morgans, one of which shows brush marks under magnification, I'm gonna pay you half again as much for the clean one as the brushed one. I want a coin that hasn't been messed with. So does everyone else, and to say different is to endorse a practice which dilutes and diminishes the hobby. I say this as someone who has before, and will again, dip coins. I know how to do it without you knowing. Unless you have 200x magnification available - I can tell under that much magnification when I'm lucky - you'll never know, the TPG's will (wink) never know, and things will go on as before. Until enough of us do it often enough to enough coins. Then we all lose. |
|
Valued Member
United States
199 Posts |
I also have dipped some Morgans and Peace dollars.If you are very careful and quick,you can do it without harming the value of the coin,IMHO.I don't do this to fool anyone,I do it only for coins I plan on keeping and not selling.A very soft camel brush,like those used for oil painting, and a dip for about 15-20 sec. will remove tarnish and stains, and under high magnification,I can't see any difference in the luster or texture of the coins surface.I don't condone this for anyone,but I feel that with my background in mold and metal polishing,I can do this without harming a coins value...one time...YMMV Cheers,Brewzz |
|
Bedrock of the Community
United States
11951 Posts |
I agree with fistfulladirt. There are are times when it is ok to clean a coin, not just dug coins. (I have been digging coins for 30 years .. and have cleaned a lot of them)
There are coins that collectors do not want because something is wrong with them. Things like paint, gum, tape, dirt and many types of stains. To me it is ok to clean coins like that as long as is is not to done for the sole purpose to trick the public into thinking the coin is something that it is not, like whizzing a coin. Yes there are different ways to clean a coin, some will alter the coin more than others. Of course harsh cleaners and polish that leave the coin looking clean or polish should never be used.
I have bought coins that I know have been cleaned, because I don't mind how it looks and is cheaper and fills a hole. There was a time in the past when cleaning was considered okay, somehow it has become a very negative thing to do. I think it is because of technology, that makes it easy to determine that a coin has been clean. I am sure in the future there will be some easy way to determine if a coin has been dipped also.
I am talking about circulated coins, which I mostly collect. When I dip a uncirculated or proof coin, it is mostly to remove finger print or that milky look some proof coins get.
|
|
Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts |
However, I think many here are missing a valuable point. And that is what was already noted that when you clean a coin your ruining oringinality. AND yes, with no plans on selling your coins, so what, right? Now although I hate to mention this but those coins might, should and will be around after those that cleaned them are gone. So now someone in the family thinks they inherited a massive fortune. And an appriaser says, Gee nice coins. Too bad those were all cleaned. Now worth a fraction of what you thought. And then too so many say I only do it to no value coins. And yes today they are of little value. But what about tomorrow? What about in a hundred years? I do agree that if you really don't care, then why not clean them all and make your collection look pretty. No harm done since yhou don't plan on selling them. Sorry for this attitude but so many times you hear that statement that this coin was cleaned but a long time ago. In the future, those will be the coins your cleaning today. |
|
Bedrock of the Community
United States
11951 Posts |
They would also say .. that would be a nice coin ...
to bad is has paint .. or tar .. nail polish ... or some ugly stain.
Some coins are already ruin because something bad happened to it, and that cleaning it would actually make it more collectible. Of course it should never be worth what a original coin in the same grade. But I think is worth more cleaned than with some negative substance stuck to it.
|
|
Pillar of the Community
Philippines
1156 Posts |
Hi JakeW, when I entered this forum I was, well, a cleaning buff. Took me a while to know Luster, sheen, patina and all the other things that serious collectors look at to grade and value coins  Now I just dip my coins 2 seconds in alcohol and tissue blot-dried, just to kill bacteria, but not the patina, prior to encasement in flips But once in a while, when the need arises. I buy some real dirty, mold encased brass or ni-cu cheap coins where you cant see the surface anymore, and clean to my heart's delight. Sort of a lab cleaning experiment on inexpensive coins  by luck, in a lot I bought for cleaning exercises from a dealer's big bowl, 3 dirty unreadable yellow greasy black coins turned out to be a 1965 Finland Markka, a 1924 Fukien 20 and a florin 1915 UK, all turned out to be silver  |
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
689 Posts |
can alcohol damage a coin if left in too long or not dried off properly?
|
|
Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts |
Quote:
can alcohol damage a coin if left in too long or not dried off properly?
Kind of a tuff question. Note that there are different types and strengths of Alcohol. For example there is at Walmart several different Isopropyl Alcohols with different strength. I've seen 40%, 60%, 70% and a 91%. Then there is the Denatured Alcohol in the paint department. And of course my favorite, The Absolute in my Martinis. And too, leaving a coin in one of them again depends on what you mean by to long. 1 minute, 10 minutes, 2 hours, 4 days, 3 years. Regardless, none of them should really damage a coin. Most problems from any dippings in Alcohol, Acetone, lighter fluids, etc that people do it they then leave the coins just drying off in the air. Some absorb dirt right back out of the air as the coins are drying. Some solutions have contaminates in them already and allowing to just dry, those may land on the coin. Alcohols are much better used for a back rub, cut on your finger, or as I mentioned, to make a great Martini.  |
| |
Replies: 15 / Views: 1,924 |
|
Posted 03/04/2010 11:06 pm
