Coin Community Family of Web Sites Join Thousands of Coin, Bullion, & Money Collectors
Coin, Banknote and Medal Collectors's Online Mall 300,000 items to help build your collection! Royal Canadian Mint products, Canadian, Polish, American, and world coins and banknotes. Specializing in Modern Numismatics Join Thousands of Coin, Bullion, & Money Collectors Shop for APMEX Bullion on eBay!Vancouvers #1 Coin and Paper Money Dealer








Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?


This page may contain links that result in small commissions to keep this free site up and running.

Welcome Guest! Registering and/or logging in will remove the anchor (bottom) ads. It's Free!

Silver Ounces And Denominations On Them.?

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
Author Previous TopicReplies: 10 / Views: 1,625Next Topic  
Pillar of the Community
Libertad's Avatar
Canada
3692 Posts
 Posted 03/11/2010  1:08 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Libertad to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I have a question regarding silver ounces issued by governments. What does it really mean that they have denominations on them? Here I don't pay taxes on Mexican Libertads because they have no denomination - only its pure weight. American ounces are $1, Canadian ounces are $5, and British ounces I believe are E2. So what does all this mean? If they are all instrinsically worth the same what does a denomination mean? Obviously one can spend them at face value (who would?) but is there something I'm really missing? Which will be worth the most? The one with the lowest denomination? The highest? No denomination?
Thanks.
Pillar of the Community
steve199's Avatar
United States
1882 Posts
 Posted 03/11/2010  1:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add steve199 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
You're probably not missing anything.

The denomination doesn't mean much of anything, except that those are the coins the government (Congress in the United States) has authorized or required the mint to produce. I don't see how the level of the denomination would be any predictor of which ones would increase in value in the future.



Quote:
Here I don't pay taxes on Mexican Libertads because they have no denomination


But you do pay taxes on something like American Silver Eagles? What kind of tax?
Pillar of the Community
Libertad's Avatar
Canada
3692 Posts
 Posted 03/11/2010  1:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Libertad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
GST = general sales tax
Pillar of the Community
steve199's Avatar
United States
1882 Posts
 Posted 03/11/2010  1:42 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add steve199 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If you were to buy a Silver Eagle (with $1 denomination) for $20, what dollar amount would the sales tax be based on? $20, $19, or $1?

Sounds like you have to pay sales tax on purchase of coins, but not on straight bullion (including non-govt issued rounds/bars).
Pillar of the Community
Libertad's Avatar
Canada
3692 Posts
 Posted 03/11/2010  1:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Libertad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Granted, that those taxes mentioned are from a high-end store (most dealers don't add taxes here). GST here is between 7-8% so on $20 it's $2-3.. which is a lot.. But taxes aren't really the issue. It's the after-value. Would governments begin to accept them at face value, or would the price of silver drastically change so much that these denominations are jokes..?

To me, personally, I value ounces without denominations. They can be monetized if implemented correctly, making sure its value (or buying power) never falls.
Edited by Libertad
03/11/2010 1:51 pm
Rest in Peace
Learn More...
jgfindring's Avatar
United States
1380 Posts
 Posted 03/11/2010  1:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jgfindring to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Mostly it depends on the laws of the issueing country and, as you noticed, taxes. By having a denomination on it, it becomes a legal tender coin and can be treated differently than plain bullion.
Bedrock of the Community
Conder101's Avatar
United States
17884 Posts
 Posted 03/11/2010  2:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
In general there is one major reason for a denomination on them, it is so coin collectors will be interested in them. Collectors as a rule will pay little more than spot for one oz silver rounds, but if it is a COIN collectors will often pay a significant premium for them. Think about it, with silver at $17 an oz would you pay $38 for a silver round just because it is a proof? NO. But put a $1 denomination on it and collectors will gladly pay it for a proof silver eagle. The government learnedthat lesson back in 1980 - 84. Before 1980 there was a big demand forgold bullion coins and the government tried to satisfy that demand with 1/2 oz and 1 oz gold medallions. They failed misarably. Then two years later they introduced the gold eagle with a $50 denomination and collectors took to them like a fish to water. Same metal, same size, about the same price. Only real difference, one had a denomination and the other didn't.
Edited by Conder101
03/11/2010 2:21 pm
Pillar of the Community
steve199's Avatar
United States
1882 Posts
 Posted 03/11/2010  2:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add steve199 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Conder101, was hoping you'd pipe in on this topic.
Pillar of the Community
steve199's Avatar
United States
1882 Posts
 Posted 03/11/2010  2:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add steve199 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
They can be monetized if implemented correctly, making sure its value (or buying power) never falls


I'm not following you here. If they monetize it at a value above the intrinsic value, they would be just about be making sure that it's value would fall, because of inflation. By putting the denomination level so far below the intrinsic value, they have practically removed that problem.
Pillar of the Community
Libertad's Avatar
Canada
3692 Posts
 Posted 03/11/2010  2:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Libertad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
http://www.plata.com.mx/mplata/arti...articulo=109
I thought this link was going to be in Spanish - saves me a lot of time. So what I was thinking is that since silver was once circulated and was "money" and then got dilluted over the years, it could help to just monetize ounces and have the government set a daily value to it that never falls.

@Conder101: Libertads have no denominations but they are sold and saved in quantity, and so are ASEs. So, I'm not 100% sure on that claim.

Thanks for all who "ringed in" so far. I'm still baffled.
Moderator
Learn More...
Sap's Avatar
Australia
16810 Posts
 Posted 03/11/2010  8:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Mexican onzas and South African krugerrands are unusual in that they are generally regarded as "real coins", issued by a government and you'll find them listed in the coin catalogues, but they don't have an actual denomination on them. At least, as far as I am aware, neither South Africa nor Mexico have ever legislated the "ounce" as an official monetary unit.

Historically, denominations were put on bullion coins to attract collector interest, as others have said, but they also add an extra safety net that was attractive to investors: no matter how low the bullion price went, there was still a minimum value you could exchange your coins for.

For most modern bullion coins, this face value is usually far, far below the actual bullion value of the coin. Governments worldwide learned at their cost that making the face value too high meant that they actually would have to redeem their own coins if the bullion price did collapse. For example: for years, there was less than $200 worth of gold in an Australian $200 gold coin; people were taking them down to the banks and depositing them, rather than trading them as bullion, because the coin dealers and bullion traders weren't giving them that much money. Governments don't want to be forced to do that, because it would mean in effect that they would have to purchase the coins back at a loss.

In short: the difference between a coin's "face value" and it's bullion value is entirely up to the government that issued them, and means very little - unless the government was careless and chose a face value that was too high.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
  Previous TopicReplies: 10 / Views: 1,625Next Topic  

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.



    




Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Coin Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Family- all rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Coin Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Contact Us  |  Advertise Here  |  Privacy Policy / Terms of Use

Coin Community Forum © 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Forums
It took 0.3 seconds to rattle this change. Forums