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 Replies: 11 / Views: 2,242 |
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Valued Member
United States
171 Posts |
This here is why I don't trust grading services. http://cgi.ebay.com/1921-D-SILVER-M...35_W0QQitemZ370351455450QQcmdZViewItemQQptZCoins_US_Individual?hash=item563aaabcda I was looking for a 1921D on there, and I see this? I can't BELIEVE that they would grade that coin that high! That coin is like, Very good-8 Details, Cleaned! That's what the slab should have said! I do not get it. - coincrazed Edited by The return of Coincrazed
03/19/2010 9:07 pm
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Rest in Peace
United States
4849 Posts |
I'm not following here. That looks like a VF 1921-d to me.
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Valued Member
 United States
171 Posts |
My friend, are you joking? The Fasces are like, completely, like, worn smooth! My friend, here is what it says for Very Fine in The Official A.N.A Grading Standards For United States coins: Obverse: Three quarters of the details show in the feathers. Hair worn but bold. Some details in hair braid visible. Reverse: Wear shows on the two diagonal bands but most details are visible. All vertical lines are sharp. All details in the branch are clear. On the reverse, NO vertical lines are sharp. I agree, most of the details show in the feathers, but for the most part, it has a VG-8 reverse! And the slab should at least say the coin has been cleaned! |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1534 Posts |
Unfortunately, I have to agree with Johnny. Scans often hide the true detail of a coin, and can lead to misleading conclusions, especially the bad scans in that seller's listing. Also, the grading standards are not always accurate, and there are always a few coins that are the exception to the ANA's grading standards. In hand, I'm sure the coin would be original, not cleaned, and would be somewhere within the range of VF-30. |
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Rest in Peace
United States
4849 Posts |
I don't see anything that indicates it has been cleaned. Definitely some splotchy golden toning that is arguably unattractive. But yeah, I see enough detail overall to be comfortable with a VF grade according to modern standards( ANA guide has been known to be stricter than modern TPGs in some areas). Plus, I think the color of the toning in combination with the scan is muting the definition in the devices in some areas. |
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Moderator
 United States
23522 Posts |
The lesson to be learned here is that one must first learn to grade, second one must learn to grade the specific issue/date in question, and then third one must learn to grade from photographs. Coincrazed, on the surface your opinions are accurate. If the coin looked *exactly* as it is in the photo, and 1921-D Mercs came sharply struck as a routine, then the coin pictured isn't VF. However, we don't know how good the photographs are. I know of this seller, and he usually represents his stuff better, but he's currently offering 229 coins on ebay and you can't get 'em all right. In addition, none of the VF-slabbed 1921-D's I looked at on Heritage had full fasces. Only a PCGS VF30 came close. I infer from this that 1921-D Mercs (I don't know them well enough to have my own opinion) came softly struck. Here's an interesting point: slightly less than 25% of 1921-D Mercs sold at Heritage were rated Full Bands. As a whole, almost 60% of Mercs sold there are FB. That also tells me that strike quality is down on 1921-D's. As a case in point, from an area where I'm more knowledgeable, I've owned a 1902-O Morgan in MS64 (and I agreed with the grade on the slab) that would have graded EF if it were an 1881-S.  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1934 Posts |
crazed; in any case, I'd wait for a better specimen before I bought that coin.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3076 Posts |
as Dave so pointed out......Pictures can be very deceiving and specialization or education of any type coin is imperative some years some mints are absolutely impressive detailed strikes.... and some are less detailed as a normal situation......it changes from year to year and from mint to mint.....from type of coin to type coins........its a lot to remember......ALWAYS best to ask advice about!!
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New Member
United States
47 Posts |
SuperDave is pretty close, but there are other distinct attributes Numastist should be observing on top-tier slabbed coinage. To me, it does not matter if you have one or a thousand coins for sale, the coin must be represented as distinctly as possible. An overabundance of attempted selling activity does not relinquish the responsibility to represent the coin professionally or with quality images/scans for potential buyers to make an informed purchase decision (I don't want to purchase the one he didn't get right). Investing almost $500 on a sight-unseen coin is a risk, which most of us have done over the years. This is why Numismatics is so interesting, everyone has their own opinion of grading, based on the acceptable guidelines of the ANA and their experience. Crazed has a point about the questionable grading, but verification of coins from PCGS or NGC can be authenticated by certfication number and the digital image. But, being this coin is displayed in one of the top-tier grading company slabs, you should be able to have confidence in the TPG company's coin. The key point is "should." TPG companies can compare images with advanced technology and immediately identify "their" coin. For example, take a look at this coin and compare it with the one in question. If you have a moment, put them together side-by-side. http://cgi.ebay.com/1921-D-Mercury-...20_W0QQitemZ220237849138QQcmdZViewItemQQptZCoins_US_Individual?hash=item334732e232 See any difference? It is evident that the grade is different but are you looking strictly at the coin? I am not inferring any discrepency for this item, just my observations and opinion. I analyzed it for almost one hour. Just my opinion. j_h_s makes wise point - wait for a better specimen. |
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Valued Member
United States
258 Posts |
Grading coins is often very subjective even with the standards put forth by the ANA. There are some very ugly coins out there graded anywhere from vf20 to ms 63 and when I say they are ugly I mean they are UGLY. Eye appeal is only a part of grading a coin though as other factors come into play such as wear and damage. There is absolutely NOTHING WRONG with looking at a coin and feeling it is not up to your high standards of a specific grade. You can put 100 of the same slabbed coins next to each other that have the exact same grade and you will get a very WIDE variety of coin conditions. It will range from the increadably ugly to the "why is this not graded higher?" catagory. Beuty is in the eye of the beholder. The secret is simple. Buy only what you like and remember the basic rule, buy the coin, not the container. And yes I agree, it is an ugly coin but it will grade at that. Sincerely, John Leckrone |
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Moderator
United States
23522 Posts |
Quote:
I analyzed it for almost one hour. Welcome to Coin Community, Numiseye. I like you already.  |
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Valued Member
India
229 Posts |
one thing I learnt from this thread is super dave is really super dave. very good :)
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Replies: 11 / Views: 2,242 |
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Posted 03/19/2010 9:20 pm
