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 Replies: 125 / Views: 38,045 |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
5619 Posts |
Dave, I did have the coin in hand and one of the leading error experts in the Numismatic industry, Mr Diamond wrote, " Yes, this an off-metal error. The coin was struck on a slightly undersized blank that expanded to full size under the pressure of the strike. Presumably the blank was originally intended for a coin of another country, a token, or a medal. How it ended up in the production stream at the U.S. Mint is a mystery. That's why I call it an "orphan". Mike also wrote, " I would send it to PCGS along with my Coin World article. They're more likely to attach a correct label, but I don't know if they'll use the term "orphan". More likely they'll just put "struck on copper-nickel planchet". " I have much confidence in the coin, I had it in hand, I also have to utmost respect and confidence in Mikes experience and expertise in this matter, I do have a concern, just not about the authenticity of the coin, My concern is exactly how the label will read from PCGS,If it reads "struck on copper/nickel planchet', I do not think I would be happy with that, being the Quarters for that year are made of outer layers of copper-nickel, with a copper core. I do not think that would be right, being I believe this "blank" is as Mike stated, an off metal error, orphan blank....... I do not want to seem cocky or arrogant, it is just so many opinions, it is very overwhelming to absorb this all, Off metal error, Testing, experts , authentication opinions, Magizine article , etc. This does NOT happen to me on a regular basis I am a low key person, private and reserved and find all this exciting yet all hard to believe I am in the middle of it all, not like me, I am use to reading these stories about "other people"...... |
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Moderator
 United States
16679 Posts |
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I do not want to seem cocky or arrogant, it is just so many opinions, it is very overwhelming to absorb this all, Off metal error, Testing, experts , authentication opinions, Magizine article , etc.
This does NOT happen to me on a regular basis I am a low key person, private and reserved and find all this exciting yet all hard to believe I am in the middle of it all, not like me, I am use to reading these stories about "other people"...... Let me say this. My knowledge on mint errors is minimal compared to the expertise of Mr. Diamond. I have no doubt that he is in fact a leading authority. I was confused as to the term "orphan". I have honestly never heard that term used to describe a planchet before but it makes good sense when we don't really know what it was struck on. Furthermore, you are not cocky or arrogant at all. This Forum is an educational environment where all of us are constantly learning as numismatics can be an intricate sometimes complex learning experience. I too also hope PCGS puts at the very least something to the affect of "struck on -.-g unknown Pl" or something to that affect. What PCGS decides to put on the label will ultimately be their decision but I hope Mr. Diamond has some influence on this matter. You should be excited, it's a cool find! Keep us posted  swcoin.ecrater.com
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5619 Posts |
Dave, Thanks for your knowledgeable input, I appreciate it all. I will have the coin soon and it will be sent out to the TPG'R for what turns out to be what we believe it indeed is!! Be Well, Mike......  PS, From the number of views, I hope others have also learned a thing or two! I will keep you posted. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2738 Posts |
Here's another "orphan" off-metal error. Double-struck in collar, no less. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...250614490518NGC flubbed the label by calling it a flipover (F/O) double strike. It is not. Orphan off-metal and wrong planchet errors can be found in all denominations and in many different years. They are rare, but not so rare that the average collector couldn't obtain one for $200 or less. In fact, one sold recently on ebay for $177.50. It was a 1972-D nickel struck on an anomalous 2.9g copper-alloy planchet. Error coin writer and researcher.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
19963 Posts |
Great coin! Congrats! Quote:
You need an expensive SEM/X-ray analysis for that. Hummmm.....I know someone with an SEM-EDXRF.  I'm excited today! The instrument manufacturer is coming to install $18,000 worth of upgrades to my instrument. One new feature is moving from dual 15" CRT monitors to dual 20" LCD's! YAY! |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2669 Posts |
Well then.. now we know where one could send something like this for analysis  And I'm sure the 20" will be much better for viewing, BadThad. Morgans Dad, this thread has indeed been very enlightening. It's been interesting over the years I've been reading here to see the coins asked questions about - everything from very obvious post-mint damage, to something that was probably purposely done at the mint, to genuine new never-seen-before errors and varieties. One thing that has stood out, to me, was the amount of doubt regarding new findings and the authentication required before anyone else will believe it's real. When we have something out of the ordinary it's hard not to expect immediate approval from others of what we "know" it to be. You've got a great one there - and you got it to an expert who has agreed it's an error. Now it's going to be one of the TPG's that will require convincing. And I'm not trying to rain on your parade - the error is awesome, and shows things like this are out there. It's the process itself that I never really thought about before, and is quite enlightening. It's an error-finder's dream to find the Next Big Error - it's what comes after that, that nobody really thinks about before-hand. Good luck with the submission, and congrats on the find! |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2738 Posts |
The Collector's Clearinghouse column devoted to this error (and orphan off-metals in general) will appear in the May 10 Coin World. Error coin writer and researcher.
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Moderator
United States
16679 Posts |
Looking forward to it Mike Having looked at the ebay auction that Mike Diamond posted, I could not help but notice the 2.4g 84% silver and 16% CU planchet. Also, F/O double struck error? I don't see it  I agree that NGC screwed this one up. Quote from seller: "What a dime-sized silver planchet was doing at the Philadelphia mint is anyone's guess!" I wonder  swcoin.ecrater.com
Edited by vermontensium
04/15/2010 04:48 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5619 Posts |
Mike, I too will be looking towards that day for this article, Mike... Posted Yesterday 08:22 am -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mike, The coin you have pointed out earlier, this coin SOLD for 1,650.00 .That is what I would call a large sum of money for a coin, but, I also see people Want these..... I also noticed the label on the Cent struck on a dime planchet, how would any one "know for sure" what the coin's composition is? ...I mean a fact, no doubt about the answer! Edited by Morgans Dad
04/15/2010 11:27 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2738 Posts |
When a label has specific percentages of metallic elements, that's an indication the coin was subjected to an SEM/X-ray chemical analysis. Of course, it's a leap of faith to believe that the test was run properly and the results properly noted on the slab. I have encountered one slabbed coin where the stated composition was impossible. Of course, if you break the coin out to test it yourself, you have voided any guarantee that accompanies the coin. If your test comes back with a different result -- say the SG value is incompatible with a silver alloy -- then you're screwed. A beautiful Catch-22.
I agree that $1650 is a lot of money. But one seldom encounters even regular off-metals that are double-struck, let alone orphans. And the 180 degree rotation between strikes makes it exceptional.
One thing that strikes me is that the coin has a rough appearance and the alloy seems speckled with coppery bits. It wouldn't be the first orphan with a bizarre appearance.
Error coin writer and researcher.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5619 Posts |
Wanted: SEM/X-ray chemical analysis Machine... I would be interested in borrowing/renting this device for a Numismatic project...Operator also needed for exacting results,Looking for just the facts, no puffery! Please include references and operating experience! ***** Only the serious need reply!! I would like to also know, for sure, the exact composition of the Quarter!!  PS, Have coin, will travel... |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2738 Posts |
Error coin writer and researcher.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5619 Posts |
Mike, I will be looking for the article if I can find the magazine, I do not subscribe to, that might soon change after looking into the articles in that coin collectors informational/guide for current up to date Numismatic knowledge. I see you are quite the "go to" error expert, I knew this, but really your articles are outstanding!! I also wish to again thank you for all you do, Mike....  PS, I am going to take your advise and combined with your article send the coin to PCGS to see what they will "place on the label"! |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5619 Posts |
foundinrolls, I was wondering now that I hear the article is out and I some how feel you also being an author/columnist for the same CW Magazine, have seen the "better pictures" and seen the report MR.Diamond has drawn up. Have you any other opinion on this coin based on you seeing any photos and the report, if you have, thanks , Mike.... |
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Moderator
United States
16679 Posts |
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PS, I am going to take your advise and combined with your article send the coin to PCGS to see what they will "place on the label"!
Will PCGS actually read the article swcoin.ecrater.com
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Replies: 125 / Views: 38,045 |
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Posted 04/14/2010 12:30 am
