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 Replies: 9 / Views: 8,916 |
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Valued Member
Philippines
386 Posts |
As discussed in other threads, this idea of our co-member Delaner is to post & share pictures of fake coins for our community to be familiarized with these known counterfeits. please take note of this laurel leaf edge on this 8 reales - it is done to a near perfect looks...    best teacher is experience...now I know what a cast type counterfeit looks like. The looks of its edge with that proportion, anyone can say it is authentic until you check the coins weight. Quite a costly learning experience for me plus the humiliating part - getting ripped off... But still, I feel it is my obligation to exposed these fake things to the community rather than re-selling it  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
870 Posts |
Hey, that's a really pretty coin - I'm sorry it didn't turn out real. : / It is humiliating to get ripped off, but with the Internet market, it's extremely difficult. Now you know what to ask and look for next time!
Whether or not you got a real coin, you clearly have good taste. =)
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3499 Posts |
Pandesalapi- Sorry to hear that that coin is fake. Honestly, though the lettering does look a bit too "mushy" in that it is not quite sharp enough, that is one of the better counterfeits I have seen. So though it is frustrating to lose money, at least you know that it takes a very good fake to fool you.
So is this fake underweight?
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Valued Member
 Philippines
386 Posts |
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So is this fake underweight? Yes Archraz its underweight, this specimen only weighs 24.8 grams - dry. So I guess no need to check its wet weight. What is alarming here is its laurel leaf edges that almost looks like real. Distinct from the normal counterfeit edges that we usually see on fake ones. Quote:
Whether or not you got a real coin, you clearly have good taste. =) Thanks Delaner. Its a consolation from what I've acquired.  Moral of the story, try to get other pictures of same year of the 8 reales you may want to buy and compare all details, letters and numbers to be safe. Edges is not a guarantee nowadays because these forgers were able to study their craft and improved their infamous skills. We should remember, they too are making continous studies. If my time permits me, you may call my attention should you need pictures of an 8 reales of any date (mexico mint only) you are planning to buy and let's make comparisons. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5362 Posts |
You appear to have run into one of the recent Chinese copies. They are a few steps in quality ahead of the coins made just a couple years ago.
I have a group of 8 very similar forgeries that I have been studying recently. They all look rather similar to this one and weigh anywhere between 24.5 and 27.2 grams. My warning here is that the weight is not always enough to make the diagnosis of forgery. The SG will be low also 9.7 to 10.0, but that can also be easily corrected.
Another serious problem is that SOME have chop marks. Not the bad ones seen on the cast copies but nice ones. Some of which appear to have been added POST strike and pre-aging.
So how do you spot one? In person it is fairly easy but in pictures it is getting MUCH HARDER. First you do need pictures like the ones posted here. Anything of a lower grade will make identification a CRAP SHOOT.
But here are some of the clear issues visible on this coin.
First, notice the lack of sharpness on the features. The ribbon on the left pillar has a poor lower edge. This is only the worst of the edges that I am using as an example. The numerals of the date lack well defined edges.
Second, note the raised features on the Shield side. There is an extra line in the F of the assayer initials. There is a line segment from the bottom of the crown to the center line of the shield. There are numerous raised lumps on the field near and around the letters of the King's name.
The surfaces will have a textured surface - a roughness typical of all the forgeries that you recognize easily once you have seen in person. I can "see" that roughness here on the shield side but I have a hard time describing it. The best I can do is to say the fields on the die were NOT smooth as they should be.
All it takes to lose these clues is a small or out of focus scan.
DON'T ACCEPT POOR PICTURES unless you want to get ripped off.
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Valued Member
Philippines
386 Posts |
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Another serious problem is that SOME have chop marks. Not the bad ones seen on the cast copies but nice ones. Some of which appear to have been added POST strike and pre-aging Hi Swamperbob, well these counterfeiters seems to have studied even the chinese inscriptions on chop marks which most of us were not familiar with. Pls post some pictures of the forgeries you were studying as it will definitely add more light to us in determining red flags when buying 8 reales.  Quote:
So how do you spot one? In person it is fairly easy but in pictures it is getting MUCH HARDER. -The 3 fleur de lis in the middle of the shield are too sharp in detail compared to the other features of the coin. -You are again right Swamperbob, in saying "DON'T ACCEPT POOR PICTURES unless you want to get ripped off"... seller of this coin was saying he has more than 300pcs of 8 reales, but does not own an average 4 megapixel camera justifying his poor posted pictures.  -laurel leaf edges - leaves are too pointed. But with this specimen, it is quite alarming and I can't imagine how would these counterfeits would look like in a couple of years that forgers are continously improving skills. -I do not buy ones from China but through experience, I have acquired some fakes from Spain. Though I am optimistic, that if a lot of us will share its own piece, we may be able to expose some if not all - the warning signs of a fake coin. Swamperbob's diagnosis recently is also a nice indication that if he shares to us his studies on forgeries, our community will be familiarized with counterfeit specimens...  |
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Pillar of the Community
Philippines
1156 Posts |
Hi Pandesalapi, nice coins there, found that out too with three coins I bought for real but turned out cast! Today I always bring along a 12x loupe and look out for ' Blowholes' below are pics of your coin magnified so you'll see the holes- a result of the casting process. The craters on the coin are caused by hot gas or the cast mould having positive bumps, and the other pic shows nodule bumps on coin (looks like tiny allergy hives on skin), caused by the cast mould having negative craters.   |
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Valued Member
Philippines
386 Posts |
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found that out too with three coins I bought for real but turned out cast!
Sorry in hearing you turned out to have fake ones too. Please post some of the pictures so we can compare if its ok with you? to include the edges of your coins? |
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Valued Member
United States
74 Posts |
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I do not buy ones from China but through experience, I have acquired some fakes from Spain. I will not buy from China but have gotten a chinese forgery from Spain! Edited by Rayhaldo
05/29/2010 7:46 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5362 Posts |
China produces the greatest number of forgeries right now - BUT, remember that once these coins have arrived in the US or any other country they can be RESOLD.
Perhaps that is morally wrong (I think it is), but that also happens. So the real need is for everyone to be very cautious when buying from anyone you do not know.
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Replies: 9 / Views: 8,916 |
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Posted 05/13/2010 7:29 pm
