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Fantasy Madrid 8 Reales?

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United States
20 Posts
 Posted 05/23/2010  9:28 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add robinjoe to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Hello,

Here's an eight reales, Madrid, 1726, assayer A, that I am sure is not from that mint. This is a coin I own.

The coin weighs 29.4 grams (way over standard), and as you can see the crude design on both sides is not consistent with contemporary 8 reales. It does, however, appear to be made of good silver. I do not have the specific gravity, but the "ring" test puts the content roughly at the same level as a Mexican onza. The edge pattern is very crude, and a series of diagonal lines and dots. I think the coin has been cast, but I don't see any clear gate on the edge.

Any ideas where this coin came from or what it is?

Thanks

Fantasy-Madrid-8-Reales?



Fantasy-Madrid-8-Reales?
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swamperbob's Avatar
United States
5362 Posts
 Posted 05/24/2010  8:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add swamperbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
robinjoe Nice coin - I simply love it.

The short answer to your question is that it was made as a Numismatic Forgery sometime within the past 40 or 50 years. Where it was actually made has a range of possible answers - none certain.

It sounds as if you have a crudely edged casting. The molds/dies appear to be engraved using a mixed design with some elements from several period mints. The details are not as CRUDE as you indicate. It is fairly well executed in my opinion. But forgeries made in the 1960s tended to forget the third side of the coin. At that time, forgeries often came with blank or crudely done edges. Silver was used as a metal for high value forgeries in all eras especially in the 1960s. The metal value of the silver was swell under a dollar in 1960 so silver would not be a surprise. An XRF test might disclose the origin and possible age of the silver used.

Of course the big diagnostic fact here is the weight - that differential is impossible for a continental mint at that point in time. But once again, before the advent of cheap accurate scales - weight was not something checked by collectors. In the 1960s no one I knew used a scale routinely - forgeries were not that common. It was not until the 1970s that a scale became indespensible. That was when counterfeits began to flood the market.

The 1726 A is now and was in 1960 a numismatically valuable coin. A contemporary forgery in high grade silver is out of the question and there is no way a casting of this grade could date back to the 1700s.

If you ever decide to part with this one let me know, it would make a fantastic addition to my collection of forgeries of world crowns
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United States
20 Posts
 Posted 05/24/2010  9:42 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add robinjoe to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you, swamperbob. I have admired the depth of your knowledge and your contributions to this, and other forums. In this age of slabbed coins and mindless grading by numbers, longtime collectors like you are among the last bastions of sanity and integrity of our hobby.

I've collected Spanish colonial coins since 1979, and I've developed a keen interest in the hammered "cob" series. When a really odd bird, such as this coin shows up, there are few sources to turn to for an opinion. I'll keep you in mind if I decide to sell.

Thanks again!

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swamperbob's Avatar
United States
5362 Posts
 Posted 05/24/2010  11:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add swamperbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Anytime I can help I am glad to.

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