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 Replies: 14 / Views: 6,263 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1454 Posts |
What are your opinions on ICG slabs? Are they another overgrader done in the bottom of the basement kind of service or are they gaining any reputation? I have never bought anything certified except a few NGC ASE's. I know NGC, PCGS and ANACS are supposed to be the leading ones but am wondering about ICG also. |
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Valued Member
United States
382 Posts |
I like ICG! They are definitely in the top 4. These guys think so as well: http://www.greysheet.com/They get a bad wrap for modern proofs where they have been more liberal on PR70 grades than PCGS and NGC. But their grades for circulated coins are right on and tough! Case in point, they graded a 1974 Aluminum Cent AU58 and then PCGS got a hold of it and graded it MS62!?! I also like their slabs with the Intercept Shield, which I believe are the best slabs in the market when it comes to protection and preservation. I have picked some very nice coins at "cheap" prices compared to PCGS and NGC for the same coin. Again, look at their grades below MS68 and you will be pleasantly surprised how conservative they are. Also, last but not least, they have some of the best numismatic minds in the marketplace and if you ever have a coin in question (i.e., major coin show), ASK them...they will be very straight with you. |
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Moderator
 United States
23522 Posts |
I would buy an ICG slab without hesitation. Of course, one always grades the coin and not the slab, so there are bargains to be had in ICG slabs. ICG is an upstanding company which is doing their best to be a square dealer.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
14454 Posts |
you really have to look at the coin not the slab as was mentioned above, there are some coins that are pretty accuratly graded then there are some that are way off. The only thing is if you are even half good at grading you can get some good deals in ICG holders because their resale value is far less than the other top 3. even if you can find one that is over graded by 2 points and send it in to like PCGS or NGC and they grade it the 2 points less you usually can still sell it in the new slab for atleast what you gace for it in a ICG slab and sometimes even make a profit doing so
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Pillar of the Community
United States
986 Posts |
Sometimes ICG coins are even UNDERgraded by a couple of points. This makes it a great case for cherrypickers, and you can get a really good deal. Of course, 99% of the time they will either be accurately or overgraded.
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Valued Member
United States
157 Posts |
I LOVE buying ICG slabs for circulated classics. Because of their reputation for overgrading high-grade MS and Proof moderns, ICG coins tend not to sell for as much as PCGS, NGC and sometimes ANACS coins. But for circulated "classic" coins, I think ICG is as conservative and consistent as any service out there. And as a collector of AU-58 type coins, I have found that ICG AU-58s are (on average) the nicest looking of ANY TPG, bar none. I wouldn't buy a modern Proof-70 from them unless it was sight-seen and sold at a discount, but I'd not hesitate to buy a circulated classic coin in their holder. |
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Valued Member
United States
382 Posts |
I forgot to add that ICG bars its employees from owning and trading COINS. This makes them a TRUE independent 3rd party grading company in my book.
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Rest in Peace
United States
2884 Posts |
I have some Colonial coins in ICG holders that I feel were graded spot on if not somewhat conservatively. I think ICG is gaining ground in the TPG market place. I would not decline a coin in a ICG holder or fear it being overgraded. They are popping up now on Heritage Auctions and I think they are trying to put the "Overgraded Moderns" reputation behind them. They are also running some great specials with some of the fastest turnaround times in the business. By the way, how would they know if the graders collected coins? What if they had a collection before they started working there? Seems like a strange rule and impossible to enforce or prove. What's wrong with them being collectors? Is this something that other TPGS require of their graders as well?  Mike  |
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Valued Member
United States
363 Posts |
Just for comparison, here is the ranking of the top 4 services of almost a year ago (greysheet of August 19, 2005. My most recent greysheet!)
2005:
PCGS 83.21%
NGC 81.20%
ANACS 56.47%
ICG 83.33%
2006 (from Zakgold's link)
PCGS: 85.17%
NGC: 78.37%
ANACS: 54.26%
ICG: 79.85%
ICG slipped a little, but still second place.
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Valued Member
United States
67 Posts |
What do these percentages mean? Is it the number of coins graded? A quality index according to someone? quote:
Originally posted by adobero1
Just for comparison, here is the ranking of the top 4 services of almost a year ago (greysheet of August 19, 2005. My most recent greysheet!)
2005:
PCGS 83.21%
NGC 81.20%
ANACS 56.47%
ICG 83.33%
2006 (from Zakgold's link)
PCGS: 85.17%
NGC: 78.37%
ANACS: 54.26%
ICG: 79.85%
ICG slipped a little, but still second place.
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Valued Member
United States
382 Posts |
ICG has placed in the top 3 of the Grey Sheet for awhile now. As for their rule that their employees no longer can own, buy, sell or collect coins, I find that refreshing as they are trying to distant themselves from other TPG's. Again, they are determined to be a truely independent grading/authentication service with NO interest in the coin commumity (no pun intended). I asked about enforcement and they informed me (back when James Taylor ran it) that all of their employees (including himself) sign a contract to enforce those rules. In the event if they find one of their employees is breaking this compnay rule, they are terminated. Again, I am all for a TPG that understands what "third-partied-INDEPENDENT-grading" service truly means. |
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Valued Member
United States
363 Posts |
If I understand it correctly, the percentage is that % of the value of a sight seen coin that would be paid for the same coin certified in a holder by one of these services. Example: if greysheet bid for an MS 65 1979 S Morgan is $100, the bid for that coin unseen in say, a PCGS holder would be on average, 85.17%, or, $85.17. An unseen transaction might be, for example, between 2 dealers online, over the phone, etc.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
14454 Posts |
well there would be no question that a MS66 coin in a ICG holder (if it were a true MS66) would be alot better value than a ms66 in a PCGS holder or a NGC holder. If that is how they are ranking that then its a really unfair advantage they have there because their coins just dont sell for the amount the other two do, heck they dont even sell for the price that ANACXS does so it gives them an advantage over them as well. They should have done it (if going to do it through sales) through highest resale value, If you bought a ICG ms66 coin for ms63 money no matter what, when you resold it and if if is still in that ICG holder it still will bring ms63 money just because its not in a PCGS/NGC/ANACS holder. Now if you bought that ms66 and cracked it oput and sent it to be graded by one of the top three that is where you make the money at, because then the resale value of the coin just jumped up to what it is supposed to be
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Pillar of the Community
United States
751 Posts |
quote:
Originally posted by Diane
What do these percentages mean? Is it the number of coins graded? A quality index according to someone?
Diane, It's the ratio of sight-unseen bid to sight-seen bid. Scenario 1: You want to sell me an MS-64 Peace dollar. We both look at the coin, agree on a grade, and then agree on a price. In this scenario, it doesn't matter who graded the coin or if it's raw, because we both agree that the coin is a 64. This is called a sight-seen transaction. Scenario 2: You call me and tell me you've got a certified MS-64 Peace dollar for sale; I ask who graded it. If you tell me PCGS, which is usually considered the top dog, I may offer you 85% of the price in scenario 1 (on average). If you tell me ICG, I may only offer you 75-80% of the sight-seen price. This is a sight-unseen transaction. Those percentages are averages compiled by the CDN (greysheet). The represent wholesale transactions of a basket of coins. The lower numbers indicate the relative lack of confidence the marketplace has in ICG's product. BTW, these percentages can and have gone above 100%. |
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Valued Member
United States
411 Posts |
quote:
Originally posted by Bryan1315
well there would be no question that a MS66 coin in a ICG holder (if it were a true MS66) would be alot better value than a ms66 in a PCGS holder or a NGC holder. If that is how they are ranking that then its a really unfair advantage they have there because their coins just dont sell for the amount the other two do, heck they dont even sell for the price that ANACXS does so it gives them an advantage over them as well. They should have done it (if going to do it through sales) through highest resale value, If you bought a ICG ms66 coin for ms63 money no matter what, when you resold it and if if is still in that ICG holder it still will bring ms63 money just because its not in a PCGS/NGC/ANACS holder. Now if you bought that ms66 and cracked it oput and sent it to be graded by one of the top three that is where you make the money at, because then the resale value of the coin just jumped up to what it is supposed to be
I think this is really good advice. Thank you Bryan. I may take a look at ICG coins for undergrading. But it would have to be really obvious that the coin was undergraded. Recently, it seems PCGS and NGC have been really making it harder and harder for the same coin that may have been graded a gem years ago, to get into the grade level it deserves. Certified value is essential for successful collecting if you have relatively little experience. That would be me: I collect coins for the fun of it and I also try to acquire coins that have investment quality My problem is, I don't have the best eye for grading, not having much experience other than my own. Lesson 1: When I first started buying coins for collecting, I bought a Walker in an NNC holder. The holder said it was MS67 and was also endorsed: "Wheel Mark". In fact, the wheel mark made it ungradeable. Lesson 2: I fell for one of those warehouse dealers who are purporting to sell you "Premium BU" Peace dollars for low prices. Premium Quality BU would have to grade at least MS60. I bought several and sent them in to PCGS and they all came back either AU, EF or cleaned. Leeson 3: The last straw was a coin I bought at a Stack's Auction as "Very Choice BU" and "just a tic or two away from gem." PCGS: AU-58; PCGS on regrade: AU58. Coin cracked out and sent to NGC: MS-61. This MS-61 Peace dollar, that I bought from STACK'S for goodness' sake, ended up costing me $900. Which would not have been so unreasonable had it been the grade Stack's claimed it was. For the foregoing reasons, and for the time being anyway, I'm only interested in certified coins and the ones that have the consistetnly highest resale value are in NGC or PCGS holders. That's life. |
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Replies: 14 / Views: 6,263 |
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Posted 07/11/2006 7:34 pm
