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Why Errors?

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Ugly's Avatar
Canada
1733 Posts
 Posted 06/13/2010  8:47 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Ugly to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I have a pertinent question.

What's the attraction in errors? I find them to be less than pleasant personally. Nobody collects fractured diamonds, scratched records or torn stamps. Crushed bottle caps don't often make up a cap collections and busted beer bottles rarely sit on the shelf.

So why coins? To me they are the least interesting thing about coins. I like mules, you can still have a perfectly struck mule. But these twisted lumps? They represent failure of an automated process. If your car came mangled from the factory you'd send it back. A pair of rubber boots with holes in the soles would be equally undesirable.

I pretty much feel the same way about Victorian era coinage. They are for the most part unpleasantly struck despite the available technology.

Fill me in, I'm quite bemused and I'd like to understand the position of desirable errors.
Valued Member
realpenny's Avatar
423 Posts
 Posted 06/13/2010  9:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add realpenny to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I like to see them because it's proof of the governments mistakes. The government officially never makes a mistake... taxes... land... justice system... I'm sure everyone has heard a story. They may pay out but the government won't admit to wrong doing. The mint even pays people to make sure those mistakes don't happen and get out, but there they are. Anyways... another angle...

Aesthetically they aren't pleasing to me, but they are rare relatively. It may be desirable to have something rare. Pull out everything in your pockets and most people will pull out the same things. If you saw something really odd everyone would notice it and probably want it. Some people may also have everything in a series and errors can keep it going indefinitely.

I'm sure there will be other reasons from others. I would like to pull one roll hunting, just because it would be different and not easy to do.
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splatto's Avatar
Canada
426 Posts
 Posted 06/13/2010  9:43 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add splatto to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I search for them in the hopes of selling them, and being able to buy decimal coins I don't already have
Pillar of the Community
Canada
693 Posts
 Posted 06/13/2010  10:00 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coinsrfun to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
To chase the errors is in fact the step beyond collecting the obvious. To find a coin in MS65 with a mintage of 1,000,000. is rare......now find a coin from the same mintage that the die shattered and a cap was created, now add in the coins the cap struck....based on 1 die = 30,000 strike........now add the differential of the coins that the cap struck......1=1,000.........to find a cap and a coin struck from the same die is......shall we say.........1x300000000..................give or take a few mill............I have no problem getting motivated to search research and enjoy!
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twincam_04's Avatar
United States
420 Posts
 Posted 06/13/2010  11:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add twincam_04 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
i agree it's the odds that a coin is an error and so many less are available that make them interesting to collect

also, for me... I'm not perfect.. why should my coins be?
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GO's Avatar
United States
6563 Posts
 Posted 06/13/2010  11:28 pm  Show Profile   Check GO's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add GO to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
What's the attraction in errors?

Because we like the circus
Because we point at the fat kid in dodge ball
Because we like watching train wrecks
Because we...well you get the idea
Pillar of the Community
svslav's Avatar
United States
2605 Posts
 Posted 06/14/2010  12:32 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add svslav to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I like errors of the engraving - misspelled legends and such. The coin still may look quite pleasant.
Errors of the striking process? Not so much.
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spaceace's Avatar
United States
797 Posts
 Posted 06/14/2010  12:56 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add spaceace to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have a few Lincoln Cent errors and I only got them because I was collecting memorial cents and they added a unique change of pace from the nice clean UNC cents. I am not planning on getting any certain amount, but I thought it was kind of interesting to fill a few blank holes in my Dansco with "rogue" cents. I am also looking to get a blank planchet (which is the ultimate boring unattractive "coin"), but I thought it was interesting because it is how all the cents start out and it is basically the last step before the cent gets all pretty :)
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Ugly's Avatar
Canada
1733 Posts
 Posted 06/14/2010  11:21 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ugly to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
So far I think realpenny has given me the best inkling of understanding this, of describing a collection motive and what these damaged pieces represent to them.

As to them being rare, well leprosy is rare in Canada too and I don't want that either.

But seriously the concept that errors are rare is mistaken. By definition there are mistakes in every process, therefore in every run and made daily. There's actually rough formula for calculating the average number of mistakes in large scale manufacturing processes based on the number of steps and devices. They may be rare compared to a run as a whole, but based on the absolute quantity present they aren't rare at all. Panda bears and bald eagles are rare.

Takeaway: It seems that it's up to every individual to qualify what entails a desirable error.

Now if the argument is that it's simple time killing fun I can understand that. People hunt for hubcaps and we all look at other peoples change so I do get that part. I mean I go out every year and spend a week looking through blast sites for rare gemstones.

I was trying to drill down to the desire to collect them. Motivation. Grace touched on some concepts and I'm not into those things either but it did shift my attention to the type of thought that makes errors top of mind.

Thanks to the input here and reviewing some other threads I've concluded it's simply a matter of personality and not necessarily intrinsic to collecting coins overall.

I was worried that I was missing out and being left behind somehow.
Bedrock of the Community
biokemist6's Avatar
United States
12437 Posts
 Posted 06/14/2010  11:39 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add biokemist6 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
For me, errors give insight and knowledge into the process of manufacturing coins. I did not really have a full grasp on the intricate process of striking a coin before I became interested in errors. An error can only occur during one of the three steps of coin production- planchet, die, and strike. For an error to be produced, a specific fault has to occur. In other words, there is always an explanation for an error, unlike damage which can occur in an almost infinite number of ways. It is a bit of a detective mission to figure out what went wrong.

Quote:
They may be rare compared to a run as a whole, but based on the absolute quantity present they aren't rare at all.

Some errors are quite common(OCs, incomplete planchets, etc) while others are almost unique. Generally, the most dramatic errors are also the rarest because they have the least chance of being produced and escaping a mint.


Valued Member
Canada
153 Posts
 Posted 06/14/2010  2:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add R2bR2c to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It all comes down to supply and demand. People naturally look for oddities in everything in everyday life. An error is something that has gone wrong during the minting process. Many "doubles", so they are called, are actually errors, not varieties, because they are actually loose/misaligned dies. If any one of the minting steps or proceses are wrong, then you have an error, not a variety. A loose die in the chuck where nearly every letter/digit is doubled is an error, not a variety. Good planchet, good die, good machinery and the coin is still "off" is a variety because the mintmaster has allowed that die to get into the presses. Anything else, because of whatever problem, is an error. Think of errors as a new coin denomination ... you have a mintage of maybe 100 out of 1 million minted and it's 100-150 years old. Would you pick it up? Collectors of any antique or collectable look for the least made and now it's available ... errors will always be a niche for someone(s). I think that coins that are not entirely in the die and then struck off-center, in whatever way, are really nice coins to have and look at, likewise strike-thrus. Some of the really wierd stuff I'm not interested in.
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Ugly's Avatar
Canada
1733 Posts
 Posted 06/14/2010  3:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ugly to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That is obviously where I struggle - with the concept of "new denomination" or overall "specialness". I guess I've designed too many machines and when I see one not working correctly or evidence thereof I can't get over the concept that it earmarks a undesirable failure.

I don't think think I'll ever be able to flip that switch over to "desirable" but I thank you all for giving me some insight. I shall henceforth stop dumping them back into circulation and pass them along to those that appreciate them.
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realpenny's Avatar
423 Posts
 Posted 06/14/2010  10:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add realpenny to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I actually do have a mint error. The 1944 nickel with no chrome. I pulled it from a roll so it isn't high end, but still I like it.

I know the 1945 nickel also has a no chrome error (something to hope for when hunting) does the 1951 to 1954 nickels also have these errors?
Pillar of the Community
Canada
693 Posts
 Posted 06/14/2010  11:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coinsrfun to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
yes
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Libertad's Avatar
Canada
3692 Posts
 Posted 06/14/2010  11:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Libertad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The government doesn't produce its own money, so it's not proof of anything. If the government did produce its own money according to the Constitution, so many things in the world could be solved.

Coin errors are simply production errors made in the mint. They're novelties. Coin collectors - collect coins (smack my head) - not spend them. So it's not like we're using the coins for their intended purpose - to be spent in the economy. The same could be said about other collectors who don't read their comic books. They're oddities. Imagine a typo'd comic book with an alternate ending that few people had.
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Sap's Avatar
Australia
16846 Posts
 Posted 06/15/2010  07:11 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Errors and varieties are attractive to some people because they're not (for the most part) deliberately produced with collectors in mind. They're not limited-edition extra-special mint products dreamed up by some marketing executive, launched with great fanfare and only obtainable from the mint gift shop or website. They may be just as rare and hard-to-find as a special mint product, but they're out there mixing it up in general circulation, often un-noticed by the uninitiated general coin-using public. The thrill is in the hunt.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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