Percentage Of Value Diminished By A Details:cleaned Grade

assessing the percentages would be difficult,

the buyer's appreciation of the goods is paramount to the price the buyer is willing to pay.

in essence, if one is intending to resell those nice coins one has obtained... then please, cleaning is out

Its a loaded question to try and answer but it comes down to understanding the WHY it decreases the value.

For instance on lower grade coins, it does erode some of the value but not as significantly as a higher grade coin by contrast. This confuses many collectors as they think cleaned=instant junk. Its not the case at all.

You mis handle a MS or Unc coin and it drops its value because it is no longer mint state.

Sample values
$$$ Grade
3700 MS 69
1000 MS 66-67
350 MS 65
175 MS 63
75-125 AU
40 XF
10 VG
4 AG

Now obviously the above is just for use as a generic example but it can help to see how dramatically it damages the coins value on the extreme high end is because to even achieve such a high end grade the coin MUST be unmolested. The removal of crud or perhaps a speck of debris is not altering the coin...but once you wipe, scrub, or chemically treat the object it can no longer be considered MINT STATE so therefore while it might still look appealing, and might even recolor or come back to a more true look...it has been forever altered and thus forever barred from reaching the elusive higher grades.

Pop an MS68 coin from its holder and just rub it between your fingers and you just did the same thing. You physically changed it. No matter how slight or how insignificantly the changes to the surfaces might seem from the original fresh from mint or "original" condition, the change is still there.

The moment the argument comes that a coin looks BETTER shiny, or better brighter so you can enjoy it more etc, you are ignoring the scale that is based on original surfaces. And original intended condition. Original unmolested condition. Strike, eye appeal and condition all play into the grading but as an easy rule...original is always better. Therefore it holds a higher price tag and is more sough after by collectors.

Toning vs non-toned is in the eye of the beholder but it almost separates the market in half because of the buyer preferences. Many argue that heavy toning IS an alteration of the coin's original surface therefore it is not eligible for such high standings and elite rankings. While others contend it is pure and completely natural and brings out beauty that actually enhances the coins eye appeal..all part of the elite grades...

Another example- I am buying a significant coin for my collection...not something I can afford to do because I'm bored on the weekend. It is a coin I am going to put some effort, thought and a good piece of my wallet into...So when I see one cleaned vs uncleaned even with a significant price difference..I opt for the original surfaces...because it is "original" Just by me spending more on it based purely on my own perception I am further perpetuating the driving forces behind the pricing spread.
The same coin in similar condition but "cleaned" is not as sought after by me...so it becomes second choice...and so it wears a smaller price tag to compensate.

Roll this logic and entire hobby into itself and all the factors such as why the coin is wearing a high price tags to begin with...usually rarity. Finite numbers of coins exist. Through handling and transactions and transfers these coins have the potential for being damaged, mishandled or even just improperly stored thus effecting the number of existing specimens in those elusive higher grades. So we tend to fight for them and drive the prices to the moon on them....because we all want the best coins we can for our collecting enjoyment.

Trying to have a steadfast blanket statement is very difficult to put into words so most just avoid altered coins period. It is more just from seeing the coins sit next to one another and being aware of the different price tags they are wearing. Those price tags shift from coin to coin and from one situation to the next for the severity of the said alteration, and the discrepancy between the two price tags. Most importantly is so not let your own vanity or pride get in your way if you personally cant tell the difference. Once a collector experiences more of the situations where the coins are next to one another it becomes obvious and that "altered" look takes away from the enjoyment of the specimen. This is reflected in how eager they are to pen their wallets....

-RFB

I think one good reason that cleaned = bad.

Even if the coin is dirty (Toned / whatnot) It's assumed that you always have the option of Cleaning it... but with a cleaned coin you dont have the option to restore features. Well, not in any honest way that is.

Great thoughts there RFB, that's one wiewpoint which I had never considered, the extreme MS grades yes, I do agree with that

Just a couple more cents to pitch in: 1) kudos to RFB for a very thoughtful and well-reasoned response.

2) behind Delaner's question about the effect of handling and cleaning on coin values is the broader question of how to decide what are good values online/at coin shows/in shops for any coin, and how to avoid getting suckered into locking cash into an instrument that will never return that investment to you (one day). It's the anxiety of every coin collector, down deep, and each of us has more or less lucid ways of reassuring ourselves that we aren't. I'd go so far as to propose that most coin collectors believe they're coming out "ahead" in some way or another. (Nobody likes to think of themselves as a fool, including myself!)

Just as many of us, however, would probably acknowledge that there's something profoundly arbitrary about values, and so we have to accept that 'winds could turn' and make fools of many of us. I can't tell you how many dealers--by way of example--list items that were the subject of an "old cleaning". Will the day come when we start making distinctions between old and new cleanings? Or between light cleanings and heavy? To a certain extent, those days are already here, furthering the notion that not all cleanings were created equal and thus do not all kill value to the same extent, and that coins we may have passed over, scoffed at or turned up noses to, carry more value than we'd like to think.
In the final analysis, buy coins you like, find attractive, etc., and yes, be weary perhaps of coins that have gotten handled roughly. But as long as your collection reflects what you like, I think it's serving its primary purpose! (Oh and be sure to return the ones you don't like for a full refund!)

-SCS

Well since you put up such a convincing argument....

What RFB pointed out was fact and a good point. Edited to become a bit "nicer" as Adam suggested. It just pushes my buttons when a random person just goes ahead and flames a member with a foolish post like that.




Not if it's a random bash supported by absolutely nothing.

but considerably less if it is cleaned.