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Chinees Maces?

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carmykle's Avatar
United States
2448 Posts
 Posted 07/09/2010  9:34 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add carmykle to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
My wife and I found these in a little shop in Hyanis, MA. I can only find that they are chineese, used for trade, and date back to the late 19th and early 20th century. Can anyone tell me what they are made of and how to date them?



Chinees-Maces?

Chinees-Maces?

Chinees-Maces?

Chinees-Maces?
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svslav's Avatar
United States
2605 Posts
 Posted 07/09/2010  11:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add svslav to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm afraid both coins are fakes. These are very commonly counterfeited.

The top coin is supposed to be imperial 7 mace 2 candareens (measure of weight) issued in Sinkiang province in the name of emperor Kuang-Hsu (1875 - 1908). The problem is that Sinkiang did not go beyond the pattern on this coin, i.e. never released for circulation, and the legend in the inner circle on the obverse ( 2nd pick, upside down) does not match.

The bottom coin is the Republic of China yuan (dollar), so called "Fat Man dollar". It was issued on the 3rd year of the Republic (1914). The counterfeiters didn't even care to get this right, your specimen shows year 2

Chinees-Maces?
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Sap's Avatar
Australia
16868 Posts
 Posted 07/09/2010  11:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The "mace" and "candareen " are units of weight, with 10 candareens to a mace. The silver dollar weighed 7.2 mace, so a coin with that weight on it is claiming to be a dollar.

There were dozens of different designed dollars issued by China in the early 20th century, as the government changed from crumbling Empire to unstable Republic. Some are dated, some are not; not all the coins that are dated were actually struck in the year the coin is dated.

And to add to the confusion, these coins have been heavily counterfeited. These counterfeits range in quality from the laughably silly to the impossible-to-tell-from-the-real-thing. Unfortunately, I believe both of yours are fakes.

The top one has the Imperial dragon with "Sungarei" as the province of issue; this is an alternate way of writing Sinkiang Province, but only some extremely rare trial pieces are known to have been issued with this name in English like this; listed in Krause as KM# Pn47. The reverse doesn't match with the obverse, either; this example of a genuine one on Heritage has the correct reverse.

The bottom one is a "Fat Man Dollar", dated Year 2 of the Republic. Genuine examples are cheap enough, but the colour on this one looks wrong, especially the reverse where the silvering seems to be rubbing off. It also suffers from guilt by association; if you bought it from the same place as #1 and #1 is fake, then #2 is probably fake too. Most sellers of these fakes don't mix up genuine and fake coins.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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Sap's Avatar
Australia
16868 Posts
 Posted 07/09/2010  11:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Svslav beat me to it. I gotta type faster.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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carmykle's Avatar
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2448 Posts
 Posted 07/10/2010  11:56 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add carmykle to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I only paid 6 bucks for them. It was neat to watch my wife's face light up when she found something she thought I'd be interested in. Good thing I only bought two, they had a bunch in worse shape than these.

If I wanted more info on these I'd go where? The web only shows examples, I couldn't find any books for sale.
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sel_69l's Avatar
Australia
21788 Posts
 Posted 07/16/2012  1:42 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Slight touch of humour there, Sap?
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