New Chinese Forgeries Of Morgan Dollars

Hi swamperbob, thanks for the heads-up..... But,
I am not a Morgan collector and know very little
about them. What are the clues that we should be
looking for in this (I presume) bogus coin.
thanks swamperbob

berry

BERRY4402 - I will start with one of the coins he posted - the 1885 CC dollar.

http://cgi.ebay.com/NICE-1885-cc-MO...ly_W0QQitemZ190013655753

If you were familiar with the Carson City Dollars of 1885 you would realize that the mint mark is simply wrong. But since you are not familiar with Morgans, look at the enlargement of the reverse at the lower right (the sixth position picture).

Notice that on this coin there is a VERY clear indication of a "collar" seam. But that seam is an INCUSE line segment parallel to the edge of the coin. If the collar does actually show on a real strike it does not appear as an incuse circular line segment. In addition notice the portion of the arc below the letters LAR in DOLLAR. There is a pin head of RAISED metal in the groove that is NOT possible on a real coin and the arc itself is rather irregular. These are not features of real coins, but they happen ALL THE TIME on a die cast copy. The reason the line is there is to compensate for the shrinkage of the tranfer matrix after it hardens.

The coins also show too many lines (die lines) they are faint but looking at the enlargement of the same picture notice there seem to be lines running parallel from the top left to the bottom right at a bit steaper than 45 degrees. I will bet those lines are actually part of the die. They are caused by the finishing of the forged die.

I was also bothered by the loss of die detail on the coin. Is this attributable to a weak strike or a poor transfer process - I believe the latter. It is often very hard to get all the details from the host coin to transfer to the copy die.

If you look at the enlarged pictures of the obverse there is a "fuzzy" outline to many of the features not seen on original die struck coins. Perhaps the host was pulled while the matrix was still soft causeing damage to the edges of the details.

The yellow color of the toning and the streaks of light and dark are also typical of the results of artificial toning seen on many Chinese copies.

Now - many of these features could and sometimes do appear on SOME real coins. Perhaps ONE or TWO of the features at a time. But SO MANY? On one coin? And all his other coins are rather similar looking. How many collectors of old coins have so many so similar looking rarities?

Actually - everywhere I look on these coins I see things that don't look quite right. But the Spanish (actually Mexican 8Rs) are FAR worse than the Morgans. But then again, I collect 8Rs not Morgans.

So, basically, he messed up his auction by posting very good pictures? If you supersize his pictures everything can be seen that you pointed out. This is a good way to learn, I am going to be looking at more of your posts on counterfeits in the future.

One other thing to tell you it is a fraudulent seller. Go look at the feedback, it was all from one guy, who, by the way has changed his ebay ID within the last month or so. Guess what the old ID was?

liuzhengan487


Do the first three letters look familiar?


MM [:0]

Thanks for the info. Some day I'll be able to spot a fake by something besides the country it's coming from.

Is it just me, or is the third digit on the date of each coin, even the Spanish ones, wrong?