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 Replies: 44 / Views: 4,399 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3076 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
3660 Posts |
I too, have asked this same question (in other words of course), on the PCGS forum, and was met with the general consensus from the experts that differentiating AT (Artificial Toning) from NT (Natural Toning) is a skill to be learned through experience alone. I am certainly no expert, but my 'guess' would be that everything you have pictured above would be NT.
Edited for spelling.
Edited by zeewool
08/05/2010 10:55 pm
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
1551 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1551 Posts |
Gene the 1889 looks right... meaning ugly I can not see someone doing this to a coin on purpose
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
3076 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3076 Posts |
With all of the altered coins that are online, as well as coins that seem unaltered not toned submitted and body bagged., I did think this would be a good topic...TO discover why and what this is all about. Guess I will get my paint brush out and hit ebay!! I can see you all don't mind, and will PAY!! |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1551 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
709 Posts |
Are these artificially toned? I have always been told to be very leery of two sided toned coins as these tend to be artificially toned.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3076 Posts |
My point is this.. What are the tell tale signs....I have had clean coins submitted and body bagged for AT...But
I don't see it? and there are many who endure this point...
what are the causes. and clues from a nice toned coin and an altered coin?
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
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Valued Member
United States
397 Posts |
I think the first is natural - it looks like it was sitting on a desk with only the top really exposed.
The second looks artificial to me - going all the way to bluish-purple in just one spot on both the obverse and reverse looks to me like it was induced in some way.
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Valued Member
United States
469 Posts |
It's really very difficult to determine. I have naturally toned coins that I know are natural as I took the out of original bank wrappers. Usually the end coins show the best results as they are exposed to the air as well as paper. The idea that both side are never both toned on a naturally toned coin is untrue. There was a case where a dealer purchased 3- $1000 bags of silver dollars from a family of an old man that passed away. The old man purchased the bags from a bank just before silver certificates became obsolete. They sat in the original bags up until just a few years ago and the dealer submitted the coins to NGC for grading and it turned out to be the largest and most magnificent hoard of beautifully toned silver dollars ever. It is referred to as the Battle Creek Collection. http://www.collectors-society.com/n...DArticle=272 These coins were still sealed with the mint seals from the 1880's. The canvas bags did all of the work. There are several publications that you should read to help you to identify the tell tail signs of forged toning as well as other doctoring. Check out The Coin Collectors Survival Guide by Scott Travers. |
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Pillar of the Community
3660 Posts |
There are a good many chemical reactions that will cause the effect of oxidation on metals (like silver). Possibly oxidation caused by the annealing of the planchets was allowed to remain on some coins and manifested itself over time into NT coins. It may impossible to say for sure just what the the causes were, sunlight, darkness, various oils, gases, friction with other materials, etc, etc.
As far as AT goes, the skill and knowledge of the doctor is pitted against the skill and knowledge of the viewer.
The Doc may use tomato juice, hair shampoo, insecticide, or any number of of thousands of other chemicals and materials to achieve the desired effect.
I would have thought that the question of 'luster' may have been a precursor to the doubts about toning. Just what 'is' luster? Is it something that the mint sprayed on the coins right after striking? Is it a byproduct of nitric acid and sulfuric acid treatments? Is it just a skin left by the pressure strike of the press? Do worn coins tone as easily as coins with full 'luster'?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3076 Posts |
Absolutely wonderful questions Zee...and this thread is about many of your questions that have not even been thought about, WHAT WE SHOULD KNOW of the entire field of Dr Al's coins.... Unfortunately, once again I am just getting in after 450 miles of driving and its almost midnight here, so I can't ask my jail bird how to respond (its Sunday night).. Heat seems to be an interesting thought/concept of how to provoke toning..Of course this thread is not a learning curve of HOW TO TONE COINS... But rather to understand how those faked toned coins are artificially toned so we can be aware of them...  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1551 Posts |
Avoiding them with the knowledge too see past the DR. would be a good thing Gene!
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Pillar of the Community
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3076 Posts |
an ostrich puts its head in the ground, when confronted with something they are unsure of.....I for one will not.. however, If the Morgan is 90% silver and 10% copper, what would the colors we could expect to see, perhaps that could be a clue to what is Natural Toning? and your thoughts?
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Replies: 44 / Views: 4,399 |
. How can we detect the obvious Fakes as well as how can we tell if that beautiful coin is original toning?
He did give me some coins for your viewing pleasure.......
Posted 08/05/2010 10:51 pm
They both are real ones a 1889P and the other is a 1892 P
