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 Replies: 41 / Views: 5,837 |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10982 Posts |
Thanks for the extra pics of your '40-S. These pics give us more food for thought.  ICG and ANACS do not have the rep the PCGS & NGC do. It might sound crazy but comparing an ICG 68 to a PCGS 68 is almost apples to oranges. I still feel your coin has a good shot at a 67 from NGC or PCGS. It's certainly worth a try. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5626 Posts |
While I am NOT a Lincoln Expert, I clearly see the pictures posted, the op's 1940-S is a sweet coin, however I see what has been likened to a 'lack of luster', there are some small dings and scratches, also the Obverse has what appears to be a full strike, but the relief, or details are not as crisp as I would expect a coin, like the 1939 shows, maybe the light in which these photos were taken? I am not sure but do not think this coin, as good as it appears, would receive a grade of 66 or 67, again I am not an expert, been around coins for 45+ years, but this coin, the word pop comes to mind, luster, crispness, all of which is not as present to support the grade you are expecting, I have seen stranger things happen at the TPG'S, good luck....Just my opinion.... |
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New Member
 United States
43 Posts |
I'm still inclined to send it in, because all imperfections are much, much more obvious at such high (10X+) magnification.
Just have to send it in and find out. Be interesting to see how the matte-like coarseness of the luster plays out as far as the "official" grade goes.
I'm leaning toward ANACS, on the off-chance it could sneak in at MS68, the written criteria of which grade it appears to meet at ordinary (5X and lower) magnifications. This would put it in the top 10 of their rather large population, and make a considerable difference in perceived value, nowhere near a PCGS MS68, but a good bit above any MS67.
I also like the fact ANACS use more graders (5) than any other of the "major players" to grade a coin. And their budget grading rates are cheap. :)
The "by the book" standard for ANACS grading (as opposed to the elevated PCGS standard, that in practice appears to exceed even their own written criteria) could work to my advantage in this case.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1534 Posts |
I personally think a PCGS 67 would sell for more than an ANACS 68. I personally wouldn't send it in, but I guess the risk of a high grade may make the attempt worthwhile. I agree with Thad, luster plays a very important part in higher MS grades.
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New Member
United States
43 Posts |
PCGS MS67 selling for higher than ANACS MS68 would be highly illogical, unless PCGS has about 15 times as many coins in the population as ANACS.
There are well over a hundred PCGS MS67s, and only 8 ANACS MS68s of this date/mint, if I recall correctly. Percentile is what it is, regardless of the standards.
But maybe I'm mixing up some numbers. My circuitry's wired more for analysis and creativity than memory.
Edited by mslibertysbeau
08/21/2010 6:30 pm
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
19964 Posts |
Quote:
PCGS MS67 selling for higher than ANACS MS68 would be highly illogical PCGS coins always sell for the most in the marketplace. I guarantee you a PCGS 67 will get a higher price than an ANACS 68. if you think this is such a high grade coin, it would be plain dumb to send it to ANACS. Send it to PCGS. Lincoln Cent Lover!VERDI-CARE™ INVENTOR https://verdi.care/
Edited by BadThad
08/21/2010 10:16 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7123 Posts |
Quote:
There are well over a hundred PCGS MS67s, and only 8 ANACS MS68s of this date/mint, if I recall correctly. Percentile is what it is, regardless of the standards. Here is part of the equation that you are missing, PCGS garners a much larger percentage of the submissions for coins that are hoped for 68's thus the higher percentage of 67's. PCGS "no matter my personal feelings" will always be the TPG of choice for the high grade hopefuls and also for the high end collector. both of these percentages of people "submissions" and "Collector type" equals higher prices for the coins within the slabs. In other words if I was a plastic player and I had a coin which I believed may go 68 or 69 I would submit it to PCGS even if it came back as a 67. |
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New Member
United States
43 Posts |
OK, I get where you're coming from, but have to wonder how many others submit pieces they judge to be "borderline" between one grade and another to ANACS based on the same sort of reasoning as mine? There's one such ANACS MS68 piece on ebay right now. Given that the value of a MS66 of a coin such as this is on the order of the cost of having it professionally graded, it would stand to reason that all such coins were thought to be at least MS67. Of course, some perceptions may be way out in la-la-land, as if they haven't even read the standards. But why pay even $20 to certify a coin you think might be worth $30? For something like a 1914D, I could see the reasoning for submitting to one TPG over another much better. But not a coin that typically trades at $50 or less at even MS66, regardless of who certified it. The only way to really tell how the grading varies between TPGS would be to submit a fairly large quantity of high grade BU coins to all 4 of the major players -- maybe even more than once -- and see how they grade the coins. Has anybody done this? Based on my observations of coins on online auction sites, I have not perceived a full grade difference between TPGs, in general. Just a slightly, but perceptibly, higher standard for PCGS, and to a lesser extent, NGC and ICG coins than ANACS coins. Of course, I've not held any of these coins in hand, and am well aware of how pics (and even more importantly, zoom level) can affect their appearance. I also don't think it's necessarily correct to assume everyone, or even the highest prospective bidder, who would be interested in such a piece would pay more for a PCGS MS67 than an ANACS MS68. Not that I'm planning on having SGS slab it as a MS73...  Edited by mslibertysbeau
08/22/2010 1:52 pm
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New Member
United States
43 Posts |
On an interesting side note, I viewed the ANACS population, and it appeared to be a pretty good bell curve around a mean of MS65, but with less MS67 (21) and more MS68 (9) 1940S Lincolns than expected for a tidy bell curve, out of a total population in the low 300s, among the non-specified variety (presumably the more ordinary varieties). Looks like a lot of people who sent coins to ANACS seriously overestimated their coins.  And this relatively strong population of MS68s appears to support my expectation that skilled graders would tend to send very strong pieces they don't think would make PCGS MS68 to ANACS. And based on the post above stating a PCGS population of 127 MS67s of this date, does appear to confirm that more proficient graders who have what they judge to be MS67 (but definitely not MS68) coins send them elsewhere... as well as the likelihood that ANACS is not quite as "easy" up to MS67 as their reputation has led people to believe.  But it certainly appears ANACS tends make a MS68 call that is more intermediate between MS67 standards and absolute perfection than PCGS does. Which actually makes philosophical sense to me, and not just because of this particular coin. What's the point of having a designation that is in practice much closer to the minimum standard for one of its adjacent grades than the other? Why even have MS68 and MS69 grades if they are essentially the same?  In any case, the more I see, the clearer it is that much of what goes on in the modern Coin World is what one might generously call "technical trading." (chuckle) Edited by mslibertysbeau
08/22/2010 7:20 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1534 Posts |
The main fact is that PCGS coins will always be in higher demand. Right now, it doesn't matter if ANACS or any other company is more stringent with their grading. PCGS coins are the most desired, therefore that equates to more money for PCGS coins. Also, part of the high grade craze is due to the registry sets and the large numbers of people who participate in it. The best thing to do is hone your own grading skills instead of relying on TPG's to tell you what a coin is. Judge each coin individually, instead of what a TPG says. If you're confident enough in your grading skills, and think it could be a very high grade piece, send it in to PCGS. I doubt sending it to ANACS would be a a profitable gamble. |
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New Member
United States
43 Posts |
Dunno if that would necessarily equate to more money for a PCGS MS67 than an ANACS MS68. If anything, it would suggest that the MS68 is judged by the owner to be a particularly strong MS67. It does not follow that would equate with less value than the PCGS MS67. Less value than the PCGS MS68, most certainly. No debate there. But a PCGS MS68 is a MS69 to me. I just don't see enough of a difference between the Lincolns I've seen pictured of both grades to tell the difference... unless I've not seen any of their least impressive MS68s among all the coins I've viewed. But I have seen PCGS MS67s that had what appeared to be perfect luster and no imperfections I could spot. Could it be the photography?Anyhow, if I weren't so curious myself, I'd probably not bother sending it to a TPG. Now I want to send it to all of the big 4, just out of curiosity. And I'm beginning to wonder if you folks want me to send it to PCGS out of genuine curiosity as to how such a piece would fly with them, being the service you most respect.  After all the stated purpose of this forum is to hone our grading skills. At this point I expect the very light forehead scratches, faint spots, and maybe the odd luster would almost certainly keep it out of a PCGS MS68 holder, and maybe, just maybe lower it to MS66 on a bad day. I give it a strong chance for MS67, and can see how might even sneak into MS68 elsewhere, based on what I've seen of coppers that are not very recent. If I decide to send it to more than one TPG, I'll probably go for NGC or PCGS first, and stop there and cash in if it goes MS68. Edited by mslibertysbeau
08/22/2010 8:32 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2541 Posts |
I'm not going to chime in with a grade, but that's a nice coin, and so is that NGC 66 Thad!
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Valued Member
United States
397 Posts |
Is that a carbon dot right beside the neck (on the second set of pictures)? I didn't see it on the first set, but it's hard to miss on the second set.
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New Member
United States
43 Posts |
There are a couple light black spots on the collar. Never noticed them until blowing up the pics...
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1534 Posts |
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There are a couple light black spots on the collar. Never noticed them until blowing up the pics... Than that and the other flaws you mentioned will keep the coin from a 68, and probably a 67. I think a 66 is the highest grade you'll be able to get, which doesn't make it worth sending in? Did you decide to yet? |
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Replies: 41 / Views: 5,837 |
First Page
Posted 08/21/2010 09:11 am
