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1933 Double Eagles 10 Found In 04 Who Own Them

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amac44's Avatar
United States
3242 Posts
 Posted 08/05/2006  10:53 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add amac44 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Poll Question
10 1933 double eagles found in 2004 jewelry shop in philly.
The mint says they are stolen?
The family say my dad had them for years?


Question
Who owns them



Results

Family of Issy swiff 77% 24 Votes
US mint 23% 7 Votes

Poll Status: Locked
Total Votes: 31 Counted
Last Vote: 09/27/2006 07:39 am
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laxmaster92's Avatar
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 Posted 08/05/2006  11:00 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add laxmaster92 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Did he buy them? IF he did then there his. BTW is this true?
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amac44's Avatar
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 Posted 08/05/2006  11:07 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add amac44 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The family says he had them put up for savings
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dsking's Avatar
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 Posted 08/05/2006  11:16 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dsking to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That's a tough one. IF Issy Swiff actually did steal them then they don't belong to the family. If he bought and paid for them or received them as HONEST gifts then they are the families inheritance to do with what they wish. This is somewhat of a sticky wicket issue isn't it? I believe that the coins themselves should be honored and displayed throughout the Country and perhaps the World for all to see, enjoy and drool over!
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amac44's Avatar
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 Posted 08/05/2006  11:19 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add amac44 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by amac44

The family says he had them put up for savings

$200 dollars in 1933 was alot of money!
Are our coin safe from the US mint long arms?
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dsking's Avatar
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 Posted 08/05/2006  11:29 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dsking to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by amac44

quote:
Originally posted by amac44

The family says he had them put up for savings

$200 dollars in 1933 was alot of money!
Are our coin safe from the US mint long arms?

Perhaps in part because of the Issy Swiff situation, there has been some recent legislation in regard to this issue. I can't quote chapter and verse at the moment but, there was a recent article in Coin World about it. Now whether The Mint and The Feds will abide by it...that's another story.
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Bryan1315's Avatar
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 Posted 08/05/2006  11:46 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bryan1315 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
well.....legally neither one you have mentioned above own's them, the US Government does
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dsking's Avatar
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 Posted 08/05/2006  11:49 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dsking to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Bryan, are you saying that they belong to the U.S. Treasury? Just asking? No opinion attached (that's a switch for me huh?)
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Snooba's Avatar
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 Posted 08/05/2006  11:55 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Snooba to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Bryan1315

...legally neither one you have mentioned above own's them, the US Government does


Does this mean that all currency belongs to the government? Even if you have purchased non-circulating legal tender? Does it not belong to you?

Sorry if my question sounds stupid, but it had never occured to me that I may not actually own my coins.
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Berry's Avatar
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 Posted 08/05/2006  2:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Berry to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
No matter who wins, you can bet the attorneys will make a bundle of the case. There are surely some Code of Federal Regulations (CFR) that would govern this situation and It will be interesting to hear the final outcome. In some ways it is similiar to the Fisher story in Florida, when the Fisher family found the long lost treasure of the "Atocha" (sp). The courts finally decided the case.
Berry
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ChristinaM's Avatar
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 Posted 08/05/2006  2:44 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ChristinaM to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

[/quote]Perhaps in part because of the Issy Swiff situation, there has been some recent legislation in regard to this issue. I can't quote chapter and verse at the moment but, there was a recent article in Coin World about it. Now whether The Mint and The Feds will abide by it...that's another story.
[/quote]

I think that you are referring to the Numismatic Rarities Act. Unfortunately, only coins minted before December 31, 1932 can not be seized:

`(a) Coins, Medals, and Numismatic Items Made Before 1933- Any coin, medal, or numismatic item made or issued by the United States Government before January 1, 1933, that, as of the date of the enactment of the Numismatic Rarities Certainty Act of 2006, is not in the possession of the United States Government shall not be considered to be property of the United States, unless the coin, medal, or numismatic item is reacquired by the United States Government for value given in a sale or exchange.

`(b) Coins, Medals, and Numismatic Items Made After 1932-

`(1) IN GENERAL- In the case of any coin, medal, or numismatic item that--

`(A) was struck or made by the United States Government after December 31, 1932;

`(B) was never issued by the United States Government; and

`(C) comes into the possession of the United States Government,

the coin, medal, or numismatic item shall be transferred to the Secretary of the Treasury, if not already in the Secretary's possession, and the Secretary shall take the appropriate action required with respect to such coin, medal, or numismatic item under paragraph (2).


Heres a link to the entire bill:

http://www.theorator.com/bills109/hr5077.html

~christina



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dsking's Avatar
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 Posted 08/05/2006  2:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dsking to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yes, Christina that is what I was making reference to. Odd that Section (a) just happens to refer to coins prior to 1932 and the Double Eagles are 1933. No - not so "odd"...and not coincidental either ya think? Perhaps just to appease the public somewhat.

And I seriously doubt if this is retroactive in any way!

Thanks for posting Christina!
Edited by dsking
08/05/2006 2:55 pm
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 Posted 08/05/2006  2:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Southern Yankee to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I would have to say the US Government still owns thems regardless. If they were stolen as they say then there would not have been a transfer of ownership. I see it no differently than if someone stole my car and sold it to someone whether they knew it was stolen or not its still my car. Is there a statute of limitation on something like this? I don't know. Here's a question for you. If you came into possession of one of these coins would you let anyone know you have it? Would you take a chance of the US Government siezing it from you?
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Bryan1315's Avatar
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 Posted 08/05/2006  4:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bryan1315 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I am just stating the obvious, it is illegal to own a 1933 double eagle. The US Government legally sold One coin and swore that would be the only one ever to be released to the public, and also swore that they would confiscate each and every other 1933 double eagle that may be found in the future to make sure this is the only one out there. So who does it belong to? well morally it belongs to the finders, but legally it belongs to the Government. And yes all US money belongs to the mint and the Government can come and confiscate each penny they find if they wanted to from each and every one who had a penny to their name. Do I think its right, of course not but its still the facts
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amac44's Avatar
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 Posted 08/05/2006  5:19 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add amac44 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by dsking

That's a tough one. IF Issy Swiff actually did steal them then they don't belong to the family. If he bought and paid for them or received them as HONEST gifts then they are the families inheritance to do with what they wish. This is somewhat of a sticky wicket issue isn't it? I believe that the coins themselves should be honored and displayed throughout the Country and perhaps the World for all to see, enjoy and drool over!

I just hope that 1 day we do not have to go look at our coin the way the swiff family has to!
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fengk's Avatar
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986 Posts
 Posted 08/05/2006  5:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add fengk to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Well, anybody going to the Denver show gets to see those 10 double eagles. The U.S. Mint is going to be showcasing them there, or so it says on their website. As to who owns them...technically the government does, since they were never released and therefore illegal to own.
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