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1857 Sydney Mint Sovereign

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sadler's Avatar
Australia
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 Posted 08/23/2010  01:11 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add sadler to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I have a 1857 sydney mint and under the 7 their is a 5, does that make it a mule as I read they used by accident some 1855 pattern blanks

Title edited for clarity and thread moved to Australian Predecimal forum - Sap
Valued Member
Australia
432 Posts
 Posted 08/23/2010  08:36 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Zaggy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
?!?!? Pictures?
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Sap's Avatar
Australia
16806 Posts
 Posted 08/23/2010  10:06 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
"Mule" is not a synonym for "error". A mule is where the die from one coin is accidentally used to make another coin it was not intended for. (such as a 10 cent die used to make a $1 coin, or a sovereign die used to make a shilling). The error (or rather,"variety") you are describing is known as an "overdate".

First up, you haven't told us the denomination; both half-sovereigns and sovereigns were struck in 1857. However, there is no 1857/5 overdate listed in the catalogues for either denomination, but there are plenty of other overdates in the series. We'd need to see a pic to see if you have an unlisted overdate variety or just strange damage that resembles an overdate.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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sadler's Avatar
Australia
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 Posted 08/24/2010  5:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sadler to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I cant figure out how to upload photos when I do it wont accept it, keeps saying something with name but cant see what, I can email them to anyone who would know about the 1857 sydney mint with 5 under the 7
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sadler's Avatar
Australia
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 Posted 08/24/2010  5:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sadler to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
if anyone want to see the 1857 with 5 under the 7 can view it at fitzroyfallspottery.com under coin folder as I have a website I sell pottery from.
I also have a 1927 canberra florin which has 2 rims like a mule and might be a proof as the details are clear and you can see the 3 steps going up to the parliment plus heaps of detail.
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sadler's Avatar
Australia
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 Posted 08/24/2010  5:19 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sadler to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have read so far about the date and they used 1855 pattern planchets to try the dies out with as my queen victoria is slightly different in the chin, lips and eyes and forehead to the later dates. The coin is a full sovereign but I have only read about this on halfs
If it was another coin used to make mine isn't it a mule ?
I have a 1927 canberra florin which has a second rim, that coin was only made for 1 year as they needed them so I can see why it would be smaller on oneside to cause second rim.
You can view it at fitzroyfallspottery.com and under the page coins.
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Sap's Avatar
Australia
16806 Posts
 Posted 08/24/2010  8:56 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here's the pic from your website:
1857-Sydney-Mint-Sovereign

I can see damage on the 7 and 5, but can't see an overdate.

Quote:
If it was another coin used to make mine isn't it a mule ?

No. A coin made by using an older coin as a blank is known as an "overstrike". However, the scenario you give is unlikely. There is no reason why the mint would take a perfectly good two-year-old gold coin and overstrike it. If the old coin were worn or defective, it would have been melted down and made into fresh blanks. It's also highly unlikely that if such an overstrike occurred, the 1857 design would line up exactly with the old 1855 design. In coins that were made by overstriking an older coin, the undertype is oriented randomly.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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sadler's Avatar
Australia
7 Posts
 Posted 08/25/2010  08:33 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sadler to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Their is a 1857/5 at Drake sterling right now so they do exist. Look under the left hand side of the 7 tip of th 7 and you will see the 5 starting under it and if you look at the shape of the 5 you will see a the same but very faint outline around the 7
I am colour blind so the colour does not affect my eyes like most people.I have blown it up and fiddle with contrast etc and its their but the camera I used was only 3 megapixil and when I took the shot I did not know about it. What did you think of the 1927 canberra coin with second rim, how did that happen
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sadler's Avatar
Australia
7 Posts
 Posted 08/25/2010  08:45 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sadler to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
After reading a article which talked about this coin I went and checked mine and found it under the 7 my coin is better than the one in the article as you could only see the part below the 7 on the left middle where at the base on the left of 7 their is still traces
I am not just being wishfuk thinking as I dont need anymoney in life and am only corncerned with the history and rareness of the coin, I like discovering, I once found 24 old parish maps from the colony that were thrown out by the DMR years ago and no one would believe the maps were important, took me years to prove it then the government took them off me claiming they were theirs when they did not want to know when I tried telling them they lost important maps.
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sadler's Avatar
Australia
7 Posts
 Posted 08/25/2010  08:57 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sadler to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
One thing I would like to know is what is a 2c Bahamas mule worth in unc
What is the price of a proof 1927 canberra florin worth right now.
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