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 Replies: 11 / Views: 3,474 |
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Valued Member
United States
327 Posts |
I don't know why it took me so long to come up with this question. I read a thread here some time ago about coin fraud. Specifically, it was about the Chinese using U.S. coin dies to manufacture fakes. There was a link to an article that showed actual dies of older U.S. coins. I couldn't find the link to the article but I'm sure by now, most of you have heard about this. I'm not here to rehash what has already been said or shown. My question is whether or not there are any non-profit or even, for profit organizations out there doing anything to combat this? I for one would be a proud supporter of such an organization. Just wondering. Oh, and you can't name one of the organizations as the U.S.A. since I already pay taxes!  Oh and one more tidbit. There was speculation that those very dies in the Hands of the Chinese were actual authentic dies sold by our United States but there is no darn way.............right?  |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12437 Posts |
I think this is probably the photo you are referring to-  None of them are genuine US dies, they are all reworkings. The Mint is very particular about selling dies and in almost all cases, the dies are completely defaced before sale. Current method of defacement is by grinder and another method I have seen on 1960s Lincoln Cent dies is by torching. The major exception was the 1995/1996 Olympic dies, they were cancelled with a chisel in the shape of an X. Coincidentally, the Olympic dies sell for hundreds of dollars  |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts |
Unfortunately if there was such an organization, what good would it do unless there was a dedicated policing agency that could enforce any laws about coins. Coin and currency Forgeries go on constantly and mostly the reason is not much can or is done to alter this situation.
People such as yourself bring up subjects like this all the time but eventually just give up since they find out nothing is or will be done about forgeries, fakes, copies, counterfeiting. Yes in the past our government has done some arrests for large bills being made illigally. However, just who would go out to China and arrest those making those fakes? And it's not just China but many other countries too. And just who is going to go to Mexico, Brazil, Russia, Poland or even Tennessee to flush out and arrest forgers?
Sort of like the boot leggers in the roaring 20's. As fast as one making moonshine is found, five more pop up. Not long ago they were even making copies of Beanie Babies somewhere.
If we can not stop murder and robberies, how could we ever hope to stop counterfeiting?
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Valued Member
United States
320 Posts |
so, wait... a person can purchase a used albeit defaced die? That's about the coolest thing I've heard all day! I'd buy one.
Oh, but to un-hijack... think about it, when certain countries (notably China) are making counterfeit DVD's, designer goods and electronics by the boatload, and everyone's making money hand over fist in doing it, what makes you think they would crack down on coins? What's their motivation?
BUT... I'd put in a few bucks toward such an organization, long as the organization itself wasn't fraudulent.
Edited by Secret Argent Man
08/31/2010 11:14 pm
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts |
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BUT... I'd put in a few bucks toward such an organization, long as the organization itself wasn't fraudulent.
An interesting concept. A fake organization to fight fake organizations. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
17884 Posts |
As pointed out the dies are not genuine US dies (If you look closely many of them are dies for non-US coins.) The problem with the idea of an organization to go into other countries and arrest the counterfeiters is that in that other country the making of the fake coins for other countries isn't illegal. So they haven't broken any local laws and US laws do not apply in other countries so they haven't broken any US laws either. There is nothing you can arrest them for. No laws have been broken until they are brought INTO this country and then the person who has broken the law is not the counterfeiter, it is the guy in this country who bought them and imported them into the country.
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Valued Member
United States
380 Posts |
Edited by remmy1100
09/01/2010 11:33 am
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12437 Posts |
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a person can purchase a used albeit defaced die?  The Mint sold coin and die sets for the State Quarter series, mine is a Colorado die. The cost was $34.95 and it came with a COA that listed the date(s) of use, number of coins struck, and reason for retirement. One of the first quarters struck with that die was also included(a true first strike coin ). |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
3692 Posts |
That COA is even cooler than the die!
Are there laws against selling Chinese fakes in North America? I'm sick of seeing these fakes popping and being sold as souvenirs. I met a shopkeeper who said they were money, then they got juggled to a related store where they admitted they were fake.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts |
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Are there laws against selling Chinese fakes in North America? I'm sick of seeing these fakes popping and being sold as souvenirs. I met a shopkeeper who said they were money, then they got juggled to a related store where they admitted they were fake.
Sold as souveniers? Not around me. They are sold as real coins. This is why some of those Chinese Fakes are made with Real Silver since they are being sold as real coins and worth a lot of money for coin collectors. And you should see the watches they are making. Or are those from Tailand? At a flea market there is a guy that sells cameras such as Nicons, Cannons and similar ones. And those too are just copies so even Japan is being copied now. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
17884 Posts |
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Are there laws against selling Chinese fakes in North America? North America no, but if you are in the United States and you are selling unmarked Chinese fakes AS FAKES, you are in violation of the Hobby Protection Act. If you are selling them as real then you are in violation of the laws dealing with fraud. |
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Bedrock of the Community
Australia
21786 Posts |
Such an organisation DOES indeed exist, and it is a very professional one at that!
It is known as 'The International Bureau For the Suppression of Counterfeit Coins' (I.B.S.C.C). It is the international organisation that all professional coin dealers should subscribe to.
I have had a dealer refer two of my gold coins to the I.B.S.C.C.; one was a South African gold 'Tickey' or threepence of the Z.A.R. which was counterfeit, and a Canadian gold $10 (genuine)
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Replies: 11 / Views: 3,474 |
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Posted 08/31/2010 7:55 pm
