Does This Bother Anyone?

quote:

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Originally posted by Quickstudy

I am not sure how to feel about this.
Thoughts?

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Whatever it is, I'm against it!!

Hi, quick, welcome to the Community.

Your post might not stimulate a lot of discussion, mainly because there have been similar threads. But then again, it might--people do like to talk. [:0]

But I haven't chimed in on the subject, so I'll bite. In fact, I'll make some inflammatory statements to encourage others to respond....

I consider toned coins to be in the same category as enameled coins, hobo nickels (carved coins), and that coin jewelry where someone has cut away the fields--leaving just the devices and the rim:

coin art.

It can be beautiful to look at or done poorly. It can command a premium or make a coin worth bullion. But it's an alteration of the coin's surface plain as day, and as such, reduces the numismatic value of the coin. By how much is up to the consumer, and the market will decide. Right now, the market and I differ.

But you won't see me paying a premium for a toned coin. And people who think like me make up a segment of the market. When people who like these colored little baubles tire of them or collect enough, I think you'll see demand for them diminish along with their value.

Alrighty, I've placed a bullseye squarely on my back. I hope I don't lose too many friends....

I wonder if this is a product of the "natural toner" for sale.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Monster-Toned-1...ve_W0QQitemZ230013864638QQihZ013QQcategoryZ39466QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

If it is, then I don't think the stuff works too well. Personally, I think that is ugly.

QS

I guess shiny wasn't enough so they moved into pretty colors. lol. Some of them look nice, but I have seen some that are atrocious, and I wouldn't personally pay a premium for them.

Clearly, there's two schools of thought about toned coins. While I find many "naturally" toned coins quite appealing, I have real problems with "artificially" toned coins by any method. The top TPGs won't slab a coin which is obviously artificially toned and they're pretty good about detecting such coins.

The problem occurs in the definition of "natural" (or original) toning versus "artificial" toning in which the length of time for a coin to become toned is not clear. Natural toning occurs after years or decades (or a century or more) of a coin's storage in an atmosphere, envelope, coin holder, bag, or other container or location (including mint bags wherein a coin is pressed against the bag's cloth material) where the coin comes into contact with a reactive chemical. Almost always, such toning is inadvertent. Where I have problems is with deliberate (artificial) toning which is usually done over a short term (minutes, hours, or days) using such chemicals as found in the auction in Quickstudy's original post or through other methods such as baking or deliberate exposure to harsh reactive chemicals (e.g., sulfur). While both natural and artificial toning involves similar chemical processes with comparable end results, at least visually at first blush, the longer term slow process, usually at very low chemical concentrations results in a deeper penetration of a coin's surface which, in turn, gives visual depth usually not found in a deliberate fast tone. There are also pattern changes and levels of toning in long-term toning not typically found in short-term toning. Expert artificial toners, however, know some of the tricks of the trade and can often fool even the top TPGs, usually by longer exposure (months or even years). There's a lot of techniques used to artificially tone a coin, but they're far too numerous to go into detail here; further information may be found at the Toned Coin Society http://www.tonedcoins.org/ .

Unfortunately, as these tones-in-a-bottle techniques proliferate, the proportionate numbers of naturally toned coins in a series' population dwindles and the value of authentic original toned coins is diminished. Other than the obviously painted toning in Quickstudy's example of an 1897-S Morgan which even a rookie can differentiate from natural toning, the situation is getting so bad and prevalent that about the only means to ensure that a toned coin is genuine is to buy it already slabbed by PCGS, ANACS, or NGC and even then, there's a little risk. Fortunately, the TPGs look through toning to determine a coin's grade, but in an online auction, especially ebay, wherein one is viewing only from an image, a raw coin's imperfections can be masked by the toning.

If one enjoys toned coins, certain dealers specialize in them. Like all dealers, some are more trustworthy than others. One dealer http://www.certifiedfinest.com/ sells only top TPG slabbed toned coins. I would be very mistrustful of a dealer who has in his/her inventory and sells a large quantity of raw toned coins, especially if his/her selection contains a large number of fully-toned coins. Like all specialties within numismatics, one had better be very well self-educated and know the field before purchasing a toned coin.

Fred

The sad thing is that he will sell quite a few of these. He was smart enough to keep the bidder's IDs private which means that the less-than-scrupulous ebay coin sellers can purchase this product and then sell "monster toned" coins.

A equivalent product is also available for ancient coinage (i.e. to either repatinate or tone the coin). Fortunately, it is fairly obvious for buyers to judge this. Also, it is usually used in order to simply "repair" a coin stripped of its patina due to harsh cleaning, rather than to fool buyers.

It sounds as though artificial toning on modern coins is not easy to judge without some degree of experience (confirmed after reading Fred's very informative post above). All I can say is that it is a shame, it does devalue the natural toning process and creates an incentive for some people to clean / polish coins with the knowledge that they can apply artifical toning later.

Peter

quote:

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Originally posted by ageka

My friend was curious what the natural toner was a few months ago
He won an ebay auction for a few dollar and received a stinkbomb
The vendor had tried to remove the name of the novelty co that sold it but the name could be reconstructed
Of course a stinkbomb contains sulphur compounds and will tone

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I am confused.

So he won an auction for toner and got a stinkbomb? People use stinkbombs to tone coins?