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Need Help With Coin Terminology

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cipster's Avatar
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 Posted 09/16/2010  2:52 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add cipster to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
This is my first post in your forum. I'm interested in US coins from 1800 to 1860 especially Half Dollars and Large Cents. I've bought quite a few coins on ebay in the past few months based on Red Book and Blue Book and their grading.

Sometimes I see notations like the 'Probable N-7 R3' on a 1827 Cent that I purchased recently but I don't know what that means. Can someone point me to a resource where I can understand this kind of terminology? Any help would be appreciated.

Best Wishes,
Member ANA and EAC

"You got to lose to know how to win".
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Namachieli's Avatar
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 Posted 09/16/2010  3:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Namachieli to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Usually when given a number like that it refers to either a well known/documented Variation of the coin. Such as DDR (Double Die Reverse) DDO (Obverse) RPM (Repunched Mint Mark) and so on.

-or-

a specific die that the coin was produced from. Commonly known in the form of VAM's which are used to identify what specific Die a Morgan dollar was produced from.

Other may be able to add specific insight as to your inquiry, as I do not know what that is referencing specifically. (im still a noobie of sorts myself)

And please someone, if I'm wrong, please correct me.


HTH
Edited by Namachieli
09/16/2010 3:07 pm
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Bryan1315's Avatar
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 Posted 09/16/2010  3:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bryan1315 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
N-7 means Newcomb-7 which was the variety of that die marriage. Newcomb was the guys name who studied and categorized the varieties. Newcomb wrote "UNITED STATES COPPER CENTS, 1816-1857"
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 Posted 09/16/2010  3:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add biokemist6 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

1816-1857 Large Cents are cataloged by die pairing in a book by Howard Newcomb. Many die varieties and pairings are cataloged with a numbering system created by the first person to study them in detail. N= Newcomb for late large cents, S= Sheldon for early large cents, C= Cohen for Half Cents, VAM= Van Allen and Mallis for Morgan and Peace dollars, etc. The R3 refers to the rarity rating of the coin with R1 being common and R8 being unique.
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 Posted 09/17/2010  12:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add just carl to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

May not be completely what you need but if you check at the left there is a pile of little notations. One of them says Glossary. That one is full of all kinds of information. Also, at some other web sites there are similar Glossaries. The PCGS web site too has a mountain of terminology items.
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Conder101's Avatar
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 Posted 09/17/2010  1:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
As the others mentioned these letter-number combinations are the result of die variety books written by various authors. The standard numbers seen for each series (and most of the book titles) are as follows

Half Cents C numbers for Roger Cohen The Little Half Sisters Rarely you will see G or Gilbert numbers. The standard reference now is The Encyclopedia of United states Half Cents 1793 - 1857 by Walter Breen. It has B numbers but everyone still uses the C numbers

Large Cents
Early Dates 1793 -1814 are S or Sheldon numbers For very rare varieties Sheldon also used NC number which meant this variety was considered to be Not Collectible. Books for this series are Penny-Whimsy by William Sheldon A very readible book and I recommend it but DO NOT get the 1990 edition. The plates are HORRIBLE and almost completely unusable. I prefer the 1965 edition but most people like the 1976 edition. [United States Large Cents 1793 - 1814 by William Noyes. Much of the same text as Penny-Whimsy but much better, larger, images. This book uses Sheldon numbers The Encyclopedia of United States Large Cents 1793 - 1814 by Walter Breen. This book uses Breen numbers but also includes the S numbers. It does a better job of establishing the emission sequence and contains a ton of historical Mint/Cent history. Pictures are better than Sheldon, but not as good as Noyes. I like this book a great deal. You may run across references to Hays, Maris, Doughtry, and Frossard numbers but no one uses those numbers anymore.

Middle dates 1816 - 1839
These are cataloged by N or Newcomb numbers from United Stated Large Cents 1816 to 1857 by Howard are Newcomb. (If you see an A number that is an Andrews Number. Much of Newcombs book is copied from the Andrews book of the same title for 1883. The numbers in both are the same so A# = N#.) I do NOT recommend the Newcomb book. The best current books are United States Large Cents 1816 - 1857 by William Noyes, or The Cent Book by John Wright. Both of these book continue to use the Newcomb numbers. the Noyes book is the companion volume for his early date book and is excellent. The Wright book is also excellent and has an easier reading style. Pictures in both are really good but Noyes is slightly better. My personal preference is for the Wright book.

Late dates 1840 - 1857
These are done by Newcomb numbers from the book mentioned earlier but in my opinion it is almost unusable for these. The only real choice is United States Large Cents 1840 - 1857 by Robert Grellman and Jules Reiver. It also uses the Newcomb numbers. No photos in this one because the differences between th dies are too subtle to show I the pictures and diagrams are used instead. It isn't a easy book to use and it takes some practice but it is the best thing going for the late dates.

Two Cent Pieces
These are not normally collected by variety there are only a couple books on the series, most recently by Kevin Flynn.

Three Cent pieces
Neither the silver of the copper nickel is really collected by variety. Tere have been books written on each by Kevin Flynn.

Half Dimes
You will see these listed by either Valentine (V numbers) or JR numbers. Valentine's book was the standard reference from 1931 until Federal Half Dimes 1794 - 1837 by Logan and McCloskey came out. The JR number are for John Reich the designer of the capped bust Half Dime and the namesake of the John Reich Society that underwrote the publication. The Logan/McCloskey book is much easier to use than the Valentine book and it has much better images. Unfortunately the Logan/McCloskey book does not cover the Seated half dimes so here you are stil stuck with Valentive or Al Blthe's book Complete Guide to Liberty Seated half dimes 1837 - 1873 Better than Valentine but not as complete, does have better images.

Dimes
United States dimes 1796 - 1837 There may have been other earlier books on the dimes but they have been so superseded by this book that I can't even think of them. On the down side the book is LONG out of print and can easily cost $200 to $300 if you can find a copy. For the later 1837 to 1891 period the standard references are Brian Greer's Complete Guide to Seated Liberty dimes 1837 - 1891 A good book but there is a better On-line reference by Jerry Fortin. It is a subscription service, reasonably priced and much more complete.

Quarters
Early United states Quarters 1796 - 1838[/i]by A Browning. These are cataloged by B numbers. There has recently been another book on the early quarters and another book will be published shortly. Both of these continue to use the B numbers. For the later 1838 - 1891 the only work available is The Complete Guide to Liberty Seated quarter Dollars by Larry Briggs. These are also cataloged using B numbers but now they are Briggs numbers, not Browning numbers.

Halves
Standard Work is Early Half Dollar Die Varieties 1794 - 1836 by Al Overton These are the O numbers and they are all in the form O-XXX. There was an earlier book by Biestle that used B numbers but it has been completely surpassed. For the post 1836 period there is the Willey/Bugart books but not many people collect the Seated coins by die variety. They originally published one book that covered the whole series but which left out a lot of die varieties. Currently they have been issuing separate books for each mint that contain many more varieties. This are WB numbers

Silver Dollars
The early dollars, 1794 - 1804 can be found with either BB or B numbers. The B or Bolander numbers came first. In the late 80's a two volume encyclopedia of the Silver dollar was published by Q D Bowers and Mark Borchardt (BB) The book was good but the use of BB numbers did not really take over. In the late 90's or early 2000 new book on the early dollars was published by Jules Rievers that was basically a reprinting of the Bolander work. It has better plates and is a lot easier to find than the Bolander book. It continues to use the B numbers. The Seated dollars and Trade dollars are rarely collected by die varieties.

I won't go into the gold because I am really not very knowledgeable in that area.

Sorry about the italics, the tags stopped working properly
Edited by Conder101
09/17/2010 1:23 pm
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cipster's Avatar
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 Posted 09/18/2010  08:41 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add cipster to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks to all of you that replied! This is great information and will be valuable as I continue collecting.
Member ANA and EAC

"You got to lose to know how to win".
Dream On by Aerosmith
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 Posted 09/18/2010  6:22 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add just carl to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Thanks to all of you that replied! This is great information and will be valuable as I continue collecting.


Not sure how to do it but I've been wondering if it would pay to just copy everything in the glossary here and oh several other sites and make one really big, gigantic, file in my computer. That way rather than checking with a forum, I could just check my own file. Or even print it all out and make a dictionary of terms. Then even sell it and make enough to retire and purchase lots of great coins.
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