Most Likely Fake

yeah you know, condor, it was much more appealing when it was just 'white copper' and not cupro-nickel.

maybe the guy could up the ante a bit and say it's chinese white copper from the old country.

Ok I just recived the coin it weighs 24.5 grams and the Red Book says 26.76 grams. I weighed a heavy worn morgan which is almost slick and it weighs still 25.7 grams

So my I'm returning it

its defently not real silver either, I just bought it to a coin dealer and he looked at it for a second and said it was fake. He seemed really angry saying this is why this hobby is so messed up now a days

If the coin itself doesn't say "COPY", it is illegal. Also, if he said it was made of silver, and not silver; it is still "item not as described". Tell him this and state that you will be filing a claim through paypal if he does not agree.

I do think you should pay the shipping though, because bidding on this was a mistake on your part. I don't understand why you bid on a coin for that kind of money when even the seller admitted it was fake in the listing.

It's clear that the seller was misleading in his listing on this item; this, whether purposely or out of benign ignorance. I do hope that ebay takes consistent action on items like this. Back when it was possible for buying members to contact one another, I'd forewarn bidders about such questionable items whenever spotted. I'd simply suggest that they pose certain questions to the seller about weight, the coin's edge reeding/lettering, the ring or ping test, etc.; and, ascertain clear conditions for possible return. The seller's response or lack thereof would then be telling.

Addressing the question of why someone would bid on a questionable item like this is quite simple. Folks like to gamble. Who among us doesn't like to win .... get a coin at a bargain price? To me, the big difference between coins and say the lottery is that garnering knowledge gives us an edge. Coin clubs are a great place to share knowledge and learn about the pitfalls of collecting so as to avoid losing money and interest in the hobby.

About five years ago, I spotted fourteen of these fake Trade and Seated dollars in a gun auction; this, at a preview on the day prior to the auction. I gave the auctioneer a heads-up that the so-called dollars were fake and felt underweight. I told him to check the weights out in the Red Book; especially, the heavier Trade dollars which should weigh 27.22 grams. He assured me that he would. Seing that there were no worthwhile coins in the auction, I didn't bother to attend the following day's auction. One of the alleged Trade dollars was dated 1885, an exceedingly rare date, and some others were CC's.

I later heard that a friend's relative had purchased some of the fake dollars in that auction - the auctioneer was clearly unscrupulous. The poor chap was out over $3,000. I offered to go to court with him, but I received no reply. I think he was perhaps too embarrased about his perceived killing (getting a coin, that $100,000+ 1885 Trade dollar for such a pittance) to drag the matter into court. In this case, the old adage, "If it seems to good to be true, it probably is!" rang true.

Getting back to the specific, fake coin that initiated this thread. Should the seller fail to redeem the item, our buyer would at least be left with a most educational tool with which to enlighten other collectors, eh what?

I am not sure why you would bid on an item in the "Replicas & Reproductions" category and then complain when you get a replica/reproduction You can almost justify taking a gamble like that(I personally never could) if it was listed in the proper silver dollar category but you are begging to get ripped off when you take a chance like that on something listed as a replica/reproduction, the acronym TANSTAAFL comes to mind.

You do definitely have the right to a return however that does seem somewhat unfair for the seller given that he did list it in the Replica category and returns are always a hassle. It's similar to someone wanting a toned coin and bidding on a scan of a coin that looks toned and then filing a complaint with ebay even though the seller stated that the coin is fully blast white in hand.

It'll be interesting to see what Paypal/Ebay say.

From a sellers point of view they are usually very poor I must say and almost always side with the buyer. Surprising really when you consider it is the seller who pays 100% of the Paypal/Ebay fees.

As far as I can see the only case you have is on the item not being silver. Its a replica/fake and is not clearly marked as one physically but as the seller stated he thought it was a fake but didn't know he cant really be accused of mis-selling. The fact that he did not (or at least claimed in the description he did not) know it was a fake means he can get away with it not being stamped as so.

I have a feeling Paypal may need you to prove either / both of the above (replica / not silver) before you get your cash back. At the minute its just your word against the sellers. Not sure how you would go about proving to them that its not silver / real without incurring more costs and loosing more time.

It took me 4 weeks to prove to Paypal that I'm a real person and live in my house so good luck with that.


On another note - I love a bit of a gamble but sometimes they dont pay off!

However I have never asked for my stake back when my horse fell at the first hurdle! That is what this sounds like to me.