Fake Or Real 1862 8 Reale

Why do you think it is fake? Does it look cast or struck? Does it feel light? Does a magnet stick to it? There is nothing in the photos that makes my radar go off, looks like a typical cap and ray for that year (very common date in the Mexico Mint series). That said, you picked up a nice buy at $20, assuming the answers to my original questions are "no" it doesn't look cast, "no" it doesn't feel light and "no" a magnet doesn't stick to it. If you are going to collect 8 reales, which I highly encourage you to do, you will need to get a good scale that weighs to a tenth of a gram or better. Weight is not always the final determination but it can set off warning signs.

swamperbob would be the one to chime in. he is the resident expert on these things counterfeit and original. he actually collects counterfeits and is the most knowledgeable person I have ever seen on these things


I really wish I knew where this magnet thing started to where it made people believe if it didn't stick to a magnet it wasn't cast and was at least silver. This is just untrue, there are allot of metals that do not stick to a magnet besides silver

hey oden!

I also vote real on this piece, man you are getting some good deals! I usually can't find anything below the $30 dollar mark for real 8's.

From what I see and read in this post - I see nothing that says fake to me. Even the price "under $20" is not a problem especially if it was in an area where there are few or no collectors of 8Rs. I was at the Boston coin show this past weekend. There were well over 100 dealers but I saw far fewer than 100 Cap and Ray 8R coins ALL day. In fact, I would bet the number was closer to 50. So in that venue - there are NO BUYERS for 8Rs so I bought a nice original for $20.

Several good points were made here. First, silver does NOT stick to a magnet so any coin that should be silver MUST NOT stick to a magnet. That test is one of those "absolute certainty" type tests for a silver coin.

However, many real coins do in fact stick to a magnet. Iron and Nickel both are magnetic metals so many Canadian coins stick to magnets. In fact using a magnet is a perfect way to separate the 1968 Canadian nickel 25c issues from the 500 fine silver ones.

Someone also pointed to die work. How the features of the coin look are critical. But to know what is wrong you FIRST need to know what is RIGHT. I am always surprised that so few collectors really KNOW what an original looks like.

The ability to copy a coin well (replicate the appropriate features) is a function of HOW the image is produced. If a forger starts with a blank piece of die steel and some engraving tools it is VERY unlikely that the result will be perfect or anything near perfect. Some forgeries are made from dies so crude that you wonder if the forger ever actually saw an original of the coin at all.

But there are SEVERAL transfer methods that can produce a good duplicate image. Casting is only one way to do it. That is a very old technology and it can usually be identified by lumps, pits and bubbles on the coin's surface. But new high strength fine grain plastics can be used to make dies strong enough to STRIKE silver coins and these dies will have VERY FEW tell-tale spots.

In the newest state of the art techniques, a forger can use photographic engraving to create a very nice die. A die can be made from a digital PICTURE. They no longer even need an original coin just a good quality photo.

The use of a pantographic engraving tool (a mint employed technology) has been co-opted by forgers for at least 100 years. These duplicating machines trace the image from an original coin and cut it into the die face.

Older techniques included spark erosion and impact transfer - both are destructive methods that use (and destroy) an original coin to make a set of dies.

In the early days of collecting a non-destructive electrotyping process was used to make high quality copies of rare coins for museums and collectors who can not afford originals.

But regardless of how the dies or molds are made - the best defence is to KNOW with 100% certainty exacty how the original coin was made. The process includes the manufacturing of the die. There are VERY few forgers who use mint like techniques. They take short cuts and each one they use leaves a trace.

I have said in the past that I use a preponderance of evidence approach to authenticating. Many "facts" can point to a forgery, but at the same time many "odd looking" elements can also occur in or on a real coin. That is when "probability" comes in. There are a few absolute tests - like the magnet for silver coins, but even if a coin passes most tests - it may still be a fake.

Ultimately it comes down to ?Let the Buyer BEWARE".

Most of the "good" counterfeits will be rarer than the originals you want to protect. The 1842 Zs Riddell # 237 or the 1832 Riddell #233 or the 1832 and 1834 Do Riddell's 365 and 371 are your best target coins.