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 Replies: 24 / Views: 2,164 |
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Valued Member
United States
382 Posts |
Here's the situation. A grandfather asks his grandson to help him sell some of his coins. The grandfather doesn't use a computer, but hears of ebay and all of the other stuff you can sell online. One of them is this gem: Download Attachment:  1931sObv.jpg37.2Â KB Download Attachment: 1931sRev.jpg40.62Â KB Scan quality aside, the grandson takes the coin to a local dealer who drools and states it is at least a "strong 65...could very well be a 66RD". The dealer recommends he get it slabbed by NGC stating he will get more for it after it is certified. Now...if it was me and I wanted to sell it and get the most dollars for my grandfather, I would send it to PCGS because their prices realized are much higher than NGC who gets more than ANACS who gets more than ICG who gets more than a RAW coin...all for the "same" coin in the "same" grade. Love them, hate them, the market has spoken. Look at prices realized for Heritage auctions alone for a 1931-S Lincoln Cent: March 27, 2005 65 PCGS $540.50 March 25, 2005 65 NGC $322.00 March 25, 2005 66 NGC $575.00 March 8, 2005 65 PCGS $540.50 March 1, 2005 63 NGC $117.30 March 1, 2005 63 NGC $117.30 March 1, 2005 64 NGC $207.00 March 1, 2005 65 PCGS $557.75 February 28, 2005 65 NGC $460.00 February 28, 2005 66 NGC $747.50 February 27, 2005 65 PCGS $540.50 February 26, 2005 65 PCGS $517.50 February 26, 2005 65 PCGS $546.25 February 26, 2005 65 NGC $460.00 February 26, 2005 65 PCGS $575.00 February 26, 2005 66 PCGS $2,185.00 February 26, 2005 66 NGC $862.50 February 26, 2005 66 PCGS $1,725.00 February 20, 2005 65 PCGS $614.10 February 15, 2005 65 PCGS $540.50 February 15, 2005 65 NGC $462.30 Honestly...would you try to sell it raw, slab it, who should slab it, and how would you sell it? Remember...it is your grandfather that needs the money.  Edited by zakgold
04/12/2005 07:37 am
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Forum Mom
 United States
5877 Posts |
Although I am not overly fond of slabbed coins, this would be a sale to help a family member. I would bite the bullet and send it to PCGS. If the market on ebay looked good for it at that point, I'd sell it there. If not, I'd look into other options. |
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Valued Member
United States
89 Posts |
I agree with Susan, you should have it graded by PCGS or NGC to maximize value. If you try to sell it raw, your will get no more than 63 or 64 money, as bidders will hedge the risk that it might not grade 65/66. Good Luck!
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Pillar Of The Community
3147 Posts |
Would I be out of line to ask how you are going to submit one coin to PCGS? That is my BIGGEST complaint with PCGS and their little club you are required to join at $99 per year or has that changed? I much prefer a grading company that wants my business, whether it be one coin or twenty per year and with no strings attached! This is what keeps me out of a great number of organizations! The fine print, so to speak, the hidden strings and believing in their agenda! If you only wanted to submit one coin, say this 31S, the grading fee would be a little steep wouldn't it? And, I absolutely refuse to let anyone dictate how many coins I must submit so PCGS would not be my pick of the litter!
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Rest in Peace
United States
2684 Posts |
quote:
Originally posted by crystalk64
Would I be out of line to ask how you are going to submit one coin to PCGS? That is my BIGGEST complaint with PCGS and their little club you are required to join at $99 per year or has that changed? I much prefer a grading company that wants my business, whether it be one coin or twenty per year and with no strings attached! This is what keeps me out of a great number of organizations! The fine print, so to speak, the hidden strings and believing in their agenda! If you only wanted to submit one coin, say this 31S, the grading fee would be a little steep wouldn't it? And, I absolutely refuse to let anyone dictate how many coins I must submit so PCGS would not be my pick of the litter!
Terry, you bring up a good point. This is an expensive hobby and PCGS sure gets their cut. With this particular situation, if only one coin is going to be submitted to PCGS as you stated, it would indeed be spendy to have it graded. It might be more financially advantageous to take it to a PCGS dealer to have him submit it. Alternatively, if the gain seems worthwhile (e.g. the 31S might grade at MS-66), it might be worth it to join PCGS and submit the single coin using the $50 Express Service which has no minimum number of coins in a submission. Or, if absolute maximization of income isn't the highest priority, then submit it to NGC. |
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Valued Member
 United States
382 Posts |
Or, if absolute maximization of income isn't the highest priority, then submit it to NGC.
Now Morgan Fred...think about that. When wouldn't you want to obtain the highest value for your holdings? Whether selling for your grandfather or yourself, if somebody is going to offer you $1,500 for this coin in a PCGS holder over $750 for a NGC holder, wouldn't you want the additional cash?
As for the 5 coin minimum, I agree with you...it can become steep, but I have always made sure I submitted at least 5 coins to PCGS to justify to S&H and their service altogether...Or...I ask my dealer to submit it with a bulk shipment and pay him a fee.
Don't take this the wrong way Fred because I value your opinions, but I have a bunch of NGC coins that I hope someday will obtain prices realized as PCGS has been obtaining for their slabbed coins.
Edited by zakgold
04/12/2005 10:32 am
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Forum Mom
United States
5877 Posts |
I was looking at submitting it through a PCGS dealer (or a member in one of my clubs or forums who was already submitting coins). Sorry, but I refuse to pay $99 for a membership that I would rarely, if ever, use.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2724 Posts |
You can always get the coin slabbed at a show without joining the group.
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Valued Member
United States
382 Posts |
ND...what would you have done?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2724 Posts |
If I were confident in the grade, and chose to sell this coin at auction I would choose PCGS. If there were any small flaws, NGC. While there are differences in auction results, and even in the Bluesheet, most dealers do not care one way or the other who slabbed the coin. Check their websites or sale ads, and you will not see large differences in prices between PCGS and NGC.
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Rest in Peace
United States
2684 Posts |
quote:
Originally posted by zakgold
Or, if absolute maximization of income isn't the highest priority, then submit it to NGC.
Now Morgan Fred...think about that. When wouldn't you want to obtain the highest value for your holdings? Whether selling for your grandfather or yourself, if somebody is going to offer you $1,500 for this coin in a PCGS holder over $750 for a NGC holder, wouldn't you want the additional cash?
Ed, I didn't look up the differences in current realized prices between PCGS and NGC for MS-65 or -66 31-S cents. If the difference is, in fact, this great, then I would certainly go with PCGS. And for that number of zeroes, I'd shell out the $99 and $50 for the membership and one-shot submission to PCGS if it means a net gain of $600, all presuming a PCGS dealer isn't nearby. No doubt about it. But if the differences were only a few dollars (up to $150), I'd go with NGC. By your response, I might guess that the difference is with the former rather than the latter. |
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Valued Member
United States
382 Posts |
I was just using the prices realized (post #1) with Heritage Auctions for PCGS versus NGC in grades of MS63 and up. I was shocked that PCGS was obatining almost double what NGC was getting for the same coin in the same MS66 grade.
Hence, I agree with you. Spend $50 on a yearly silver membership, submit any 5 coins mix-n-match ($18 each - economy service), and even with the costs of submission and all, you are still way ahead (in Heritage Auctions that is)...IF you get the grade of MS66 for this 1931-S Lincoln.
I guess I need to look at dealer sheets, because Heritage must attrack a huge and loyal PCGS following...but at almost double the prices realized? Makes me want to buy some NGC coins and "cross-them" for the same grade. If they don't, well I am out the submission fee. If they cross (or better!), I am way ahead. I know it happens, but there are some serious dollars that could come into play.
Edited by zakgold
04/12/2005 3:34 pm
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Valued Member
United States
421 Posts |
Looking at the proces realized, if PCGS and NGC would grade it exactly the same, PCGS is the better choice. If PCGS would grade it a grade lower than NGC (not unlikely), NGC is probably the better choice.
If it is a no question 65 at either service, PCGS is probably the better choice. If it is a maybe 66, you are probably more likely to get that 66 out of NGC and they would be the better choice.
My guess (and it is only that) is that it is tougher to get a 66 out of PCGS on this coin than at NGC since the jumps in price between the 2 grades are so different for the two services.
No way would I try to sell it raw.
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Valued Member
United States
89 Posts |
Well, here are the populations for the 31-S Lincoln in MS-64-65-66 Red:
PCGS: 834-680-79
NGC: 365-212-18
Based on percent graded, it would appear to be harder to get an NGC grade of 65 or 66 than PCGS. Now this may also mean that better coins overall are submitted to PCGS. However, to justify the price difference you would want it to be "easier" to make 65 or 66 with NGC, and that does not appear to be the case.
I suspect the higher price for PCGS coins are driven by registry set builders. Early red Lincolns are very popular among well-heeled PCGS Registry Set participants, and from reading the PCGS Registry Forum, the competition is fierce!!
Is there a dealer in your area that will submit it to PCGS for you? I would hate to see you spend over $100 just to have one coin graded. If you have other coins to grade and join PCGS, go for the silver ($49 for submission privileges only) or platium ($199, and you get 8 "free" submissions and the PCGS grading book). Gold is a ripoff now -- you pay $99, and you only get the PCGS grading book for the extra $50.
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Valued Member
United States
421 Posts |
quote:
Originally posted by Connecticoin
Well, here are the populations for the 31-S Lincoln in MS-64-65-66 Red:
PCGS: 834-680-79
NGC: 365-212-18
Ahhh! There's a good bit of extra info. I think I would be more likely to send it to PCGS, then. Edited by Stujoe
04/12/2005 5:58 pm
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Valued Member
United States
458 Posts |
 I think its all hype!!! I was a member of both services PCGS & NGC, I sent them both coins to be graded, I was diappointed with all the returns from BOTH services, BUT I found that NGC more "fairly" graded these coins accurately than PCGS. PCGS has a history of "undergrading" coins---Rumor has it that they do not believe a "perfect" coins exists, so trying to get a MS70 or a PF70 is fantasy land..So when I compared the results from these same rolls if you will, I beleived then and still do to this day that PCGS undergrades severely---compared to NGC. All I want is an accurate grade, not low grade, not high ACCURATE So why does this happen? It is something that they PCGS has cultivated over the years--It is perception, a false one at that. After all they were the very first slabbing company, you have to respect that--BUT when an owner of coin dealership is also the owner of the most "popular" and most "overpriced" slabbed coins in the country, and since storys have circulated about under the table stuff---well I am suspicious--Conflict of interests smells all over pcgs--(What a position to be in eh  , send coins in to the outfit who undergrades and I own, get a nice grade the sell at over priced prices, whata country)-I understand that the guy who ran PCGS is now running NGC, bird of feather seem to fly together. For now I am only a member at NGC, mainly since ANA approves them now over PCGS, you gotta figure PCGS just did not offer enof doe when they lost that logo--  I would not pay you for that penny in a pcgs or ngc slab that kind of money even in a ms67 grade!![:0] Edited by CiScO
04/12/2005 8:16 pm
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Replies: 24 / Views: 2,164 |
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Posted 04/12/2005 07:23 am
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