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Redbook, Bluebook, Trend?

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Ralph's Avatar
United States
1582 Posts
 Posted 09/01/2006  9:05 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Ralph to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Before posting I went to the glossary, and looked up trend in relationship to coin value. Nothing there, so I have come to ask of those who know - what exactly does it mean when you're talking about the value of a particular coin?
I've got a RedBook, a Bluebook, and I've saved CoinValues-CoinWorldTrends on my computer, and it's time I knew the difference. My guess is - RedBook lists retail value, or what you can expect to pay for a coin from a dealer. Bluebook lists wholesale, or what a dealer will pay you for a coin you are trying to sell. But the Trend thingie has got me stumped, and, since the trend value for each coin listed seems to be higher than the other two listings, I'm chompin' at the bit to find out what it is. - Ralph
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crystalk64's Avatar
3147 Posts
 Posted 09/01/2006  10:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add crystalk64 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The most accurate guide out there is the Grey Sheet as it is updated every week. The RedBook and Bluebook are made a year in advance prior to release so there is NO way they can be accurate. Most other guides are priced HIGH in an effort to promote the hobby when in reality those prices are seldom paid. Always keep in mind those who tend to make the most, and have the money, are involved in such publications and can and will protect their interests. Find a dealer(s) you can trust and work with them as NO guide will ever tell you an accurate answer. That is why they are called GUIDES!
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dsking's Avatar
United States
2365 Posts
 Posted 09/01/2006  11:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dsking to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Watch the trend listings that you're talking about closely...they will go up and down within a very short amount of time depending, quite literally, on what the market trend is doing. ie: What coins have been bought/sold, prices bought/sold, etc. That drives the values as well as bullion markets, etc. Does that make sense inaddition to crystalks comments?
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Ralph's Avatar
United States
1582 Posts
 Posted 09/02/2006  12:07 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ralph to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It most certainly does dsking. I've noticed the fluctuation in prices even in the short time that I've been watching that site. So, TREND is basically what the trend value is at a given time based, primarily, on the activity in the coin market at that time? I can understand that - supply and demand.
And, crystalk, if I understand you correctly - the RedBook and Bluebook are obsolete, as far as actual current value, before they hit the stores?
Thanks for the info - I was curious, and now I know. Greysheet, huh?
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crystalk64's Avatar
3147 Posts
 Posted 09/02/2006  08:54 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add crystalk64 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The RedBook is an excellent guide but that is ALL that it is. They must be prepared almost a year in advance to get them to the publisher, printed, bound and out on the market. Markets can make huge moves in either direction in a very short period so there is no way these guides can be accurate across the board. Granted they may be close in many areas, especially in areas where there is not much collector interests but our hobby is a huge supply and demand game and interests can change very rapidly. Throw in media hype on top of all of this and who knows what EVERYONE will be wanting to own this time next year? I am not knocking the RedBook by any means as I buy one every year but I never use it for values when it comes to buying or selling. I use my dealer and his grey sheet. And, quite honestly, while many do not care for ebay the fact remains that it is an excellent example of what prices are being paid for specific coins on any given day and it is REAL life not a guide.
Probably the hardest thing to do in our hobby is learn to AVOID the hype and collect what your heart desires. Hyped coins and sets, while hotter than a firecraker today, may be nothing more than a mention in a book two years from now with no interest or little value compared to that which one may pay while the spiders are weaving their web, so to speak.
Being a world wide collector I try to watch release mintages very closely and must work to keep up with silver released from other nations. A fine example would be the Australian Kangaroos which, in some years is very limited, thus creating a very profitable set of coins if you can find them for purchase at release prices. Many nations will limit coin releases to 1000 to 10,000 pieces which in all honesty makes it a pretty rare coin compared to supply and demand almost immediately. As world wide collecting continues to catch on the markets are going to adjust accordingly as those limited issues will be tough to assemble at an affordable cost.
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Ralph's Avatar
United States
1582 Posts
 Posted 09/02/2006  12:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ralph to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I live in a little piece of a town with less than 2000 folks - no coin dealers here, and I don't know how to go about getting a greysheet. Can the ordinary everyday collector subscribe to it, or is it just for dealers?
I like the RedBook - lots of info in there, and I think the Bluebook is kinda cool too. I usually fix my mind on a price somewhere between the two when considering the purchase of a coin.
As far as ebay and other online auctions go - I have acquired the majority of my collection off of the internet - I'm a disabled Vietnam vet, and I don't get out much anymore, so the online auctions have been a good thing for me; however, the high shipping costs on some items have deterred me from bidding on a coin I wanted, but that's another thread altogether.
Also, my collection consists of only U.S. coins with the majority being in circulated condition - that's my preference, and it seems there are fewer people bidding on the Good and Very Good coins, so I've been able to get some pretty good deals.
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United States
751 Posts
 Posted 09/05/2006  11:32 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add texasmick to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
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Ralph's Avatar
United States
1582 Posts
 Posted 09/05/2006  11:48 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ralph to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
texasmick - thanks for the info. Knowing the current value of a particular coin will no doubt save me a little money should I choose to buy it.
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United States
751 Posts
 Posted 09/05/2006  12:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add texasmick to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Just so you understand that the value in the greysheet is the wholesale value. You should expect to pay a bit more, but it is the starting point for most of the transactions I've had with dealers and at shows.

EDIT: Just noticed that you can request a 1-time free sample!
Edited by texasmick
09/05/2006 2:24 pm
Valued Member
adobero1's Avatar
United States
363 Posts
 Posted 09/05/2006  1:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add adobero1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I agree with what Terry said on this. The obsolescence of Red and Blue book values are especially off this year, with the dramatic increase in bullion prices of the last year thrown in.

Sometimes I think there is a lot of collusion and hype that goes on to artificially increase a catalogue value. The value guides published in magazines and the numismatic periodicals in some cases are very inflated. Exceptions to this rule sometimes are the values of key dates such as a 1916 D Merc. Even dealers sometimes have to pay full catalogue value for something like this, but, then, they know they can sell it pretty quickly since there is more demand.

I think inflated values are even more true in the stamp field. I was once at a Long Beach show and purchased some stamps of a country which I collected. I went to a friend who is a full time stamp dealer and proudly proclaimed: what do you think of these, I paid 1/3 catalogue value! He said, hmmm, well, that's actually not very good. You should be able to get that stuff for more in the range of 1/6 to 1/10 catalogue! I was incredulous. I said, well then what's the purpose of catalogue values then? He said a lot of that is just part of the racket.

Exceptions there too, are key issues which can bring close to or over catalogue. There's a lot of suspicious stuff going on in all the collectible fields I think. But, once you realize what's going on, you can still do ok.

Sorry dsking. Just noticed you had already addressed the bullion thing!
Edited by adobero1
09/05/2006 1:38 pm
Forum Kid
thekidcollector's Avatar
Kuwait
1523 Posts
 Posted 09/05/2006  1:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add thekidcollector to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Fogrot the Blackbook guide to world coins.

And Greenbook guide to cleaning coins.

TKC!
Forum Kid
thekidcollector's Avatar
Kuwait
1523 Posts
 Posted 09/05/2006  1:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add thekidcollector to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply










































TKC!
Made the last one up
Valued Member
adobero1's Avatar
United States
363 Posts
 Posted 09/05/2006  2:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add adobero1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I was just thinking about how we always hear, buy the book before the coin. Probably anyone who wants to collect stamps, coins, antiques, anything, before ever buying a book on coins, a book on stamps, a book on antiques, is to buy a book, or better yet take a course at one's local community college entitled Marketing 101. That way, we learn how people who have the agenda of selling something turn every negative into a positive, convince others they need something they have, etc.
How often do you ask someone, (a realtor, a banker, car salesperson) how's business, and gotten, well it's not too good right now...yeah right! Have you ever heard the president of the U.S. come out at the State of the Union message and start out by saying "The state of the union isn't all that great right now..." Hah! These people are all marketing geniuses.

However, now I'm off to buy that Green Book guide, I've been needing that for years!
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