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 Replies: 81 / Views: 23,597 |
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New Member
United States
38 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4846 Posts |
the error you are thinking is a large over small DATE, not coin. the reeded edge would not be possible unless you have a double denomination coin(which you dont). IMO, you have a fake/ altered coin. I think I can see casting marks on the last picture. can you get a closer pic of the edge?
Edited by Adam_E
12/22/2010 11:41 am
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12437 Posts |
Sorry, but you have an altered coin. It is impossible for a normal sized cent to have reeding applied at the Mint.
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New Member
 United States
38 Posts |
What is the diameter of a dime collar?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7629 Posts |
The diameter of a dime collar is the same as a dime...smaller than a cent.
Your coin was altered after it left the mint, no question about it.
As for the large over small - not sure why you are using that term or where you are getting it from.
Your coin is also not "red" as grading goes. In order for any coin to be considered "red" or "RD" it has to have the original mint color - bright, shiny red. Any VF (very fine) coin is going to have enough circulation wear so as not to be red.
Your coin has AU (about uncirculated) details, but because it is an altered coin, this is considered damage and renders the coin not gradable.
It is a novelty at this point, and for the craftsmanship of cutting the reeds into the coin it's worth around a dollar.
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New Member
United States
38 Posts |
I appreciate everyones comments on my coin. But, I find it hard to dismiss the fact that someone would go through the pain staking task of manipulating one single coin and not attempt to gain a profit from their efforts. The coin itself has been in circulation for 50 years!
A little history on this coin, it came into my possesion around 1973 as part of my payment from one of my customers for shinning his shoes. My father promptly took it off of my hands and I did not see it again for a long time. When my father passed 10 years ago the coin found its way back to me.
It is more probably that the coin was struck on the wrong planchet. Why is it not possible for a completely minted cent to be struck error by another die. The reeding is part of the striking process, and is considered the third die, and identified as the retaining collar. Both the diameter of a dime and a penny are the same (0.750 in according to Wikipedia).
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Valued Member
United States
188 Posts |
You asked for opinions and you got them. Copper coins is the expert around here (especially when it comes to cents), I would hold his opinion in high regard.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3592 Posts |
micmar, place a dime on top of a penny and see if you believe wikipedia or your own eyes.A dime is .050" smaller than a cent.
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Locked
822 Posts |
Quote:
It is more probably that the coin was struck on the wrong planchet. Why is it not possible for a completely minted cent to be struck error by another die. The reeding is part of the striking process, and is considered the third die, and identified as the retaining collar. Both the diameter of a dime and a penny are the same (0.750 in according to Wikipedia).
You're right. The coin is a real error and worth about $550,000. I would start with the Wikipedia professional editors in looking for a potential buyer. You'll soon be rolling in dough. Now, is that better? What you wanted to hear? OK, back to reality. You came here and asked for "Opinions ? Thoughts ? or Information ?", but that's obviously not what you really wanted. What you wanted is for someone to tell you your father was a genius for pulling it out of circulation and now you're rich because of it. But the reality is that probably the premier Lincoln Cent expert in the world just told you the facts about your coin and you don't want to believe it. Very sorry. Quote:
I placed the cent on top of a 1960 D dime and the reeds appear to match that of the dime. Did it appear larger?  Edited by scubu
12/22/2010 2:02 pm
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Moderator
 United States
188130 Posts |
Quote:
Both the diameter of a dime and a penny are the same (0.750 in according to Wikipedia). But they are not... The cent is 19.0 mm The dime is 17.9 mm |
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New Member
United States
38 Posts |
No need for nasty or smart comments! I am not a professional! *SCUBU* & *MAINEMAN750* I did place one one top of the other and the cent was larger as it should be, but that was refferencing the reeding on the coin. My only point being is, if the planchets themselves are close enough in size where this type of error could occur? And who would'nt want to hear they had a rare coin *JBUCK* The diameters of the penny and dime were what was listed per Wikipedia, they also show that the penny diameter is 19.05 mm and the dime is 17.91 mm. I believe that is a difference of only 1.14 mm. and I'm not even sure if the mint used those measurements in 1959. *USMCLION* Semer Fi and I hold everyones input in high regard, I am a novice. *COOPERCOINS* I appreciate your expertise and input. Excuse my terminology being used incorrectly, again I am a novice. Is the reeding part of the striking process considered the third die? And also identified as the retaining collar? I thought the retaining collar was a little larger and therefore possible to have occured at this point in the process.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3592 Posts |
micmar,the penny is almost 1/16" larger than a dime, and yes they used those sizes in 1959.I also agree some comments were a little harsh, especially for a newbie.That being said, you can take coppercoins word that this is not a possible error, and yes there are people that will spend time to do this to a coin just to create commotion or rumors, or maybe even sell to unsuspecting buyers.
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Moderator
United States
188130 Posts |
Quote:
I believe that is a difference of only 1.14 mm. and I'm not even sure if the mint used those measurements in 1959. The difference is not zero, therefore they are not the same. And yes, those measurements were used in 1959. You may not believe it, but what you propose is mechanically impossible. I also think you are overlooking that what you found is still pretty cool. As to why someone would do this, well, it sure has generated a lot of discussion, right? It may not make you rich, but it is a keeper. If you knew me you would know that I am the sentimental type. The fact that your father kept it and now you have it again makes it priceless. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12437 Posts |
Quote:
My only point being is, if the planchets themselves are close enough in size where this type of error could occur? That is the point we are trying to make- it is an impossible error, it simply cannot happen. A dime collar will not work in a press with cent dies, they do not fit together due to size differences. Quote:
I believe that is a difference of only 1.14 mm. and I'm not even sure if the mint used those measurements in 1959. You would be surprised, US coins have had very precisely defined diameters since the 1830s when new steam powered presses replaced the old screw presses. Quote:
Is the reeding part of the striking process considered the third die? And also identified as the retaining collar? Yes, the collar aka "third die" applies the reeding to a coin when struck. The collar also defines the precise diameter of a coin. Smaller planchets can be struck in a larger collar but it does not work the other way around. Quote:
It is more probably that the coin was struck on the wrong planchet. Why is it not possible for a completely minted cent to be struck error by another die. The planchet has NOTHING to do with the reeding and that coin was struck on a normal cent planchet. Sure, it is possible for a struck cent to be struck again. It could be struck again with cent dies(a double struck coin) but two distinct strikings are visible. It could also be struck with dies for a larger coin such as a nickel or quarter but NOT a dime. That error is known as a double denomination and will show details of the original host coin as well as the second strike. I think part of the problem here micmar is that you have a profound misunderstanding of the minting process. You glean bits of numismatic information from the web but assemble those bits in a nonsense fashion. Errors are not some mysterious creature that just appears and no one knows how the coin was created. The error creation process is well-known and there are a limited, albeit large, number of of ways to create an error. From my own experience, the two biggest problems even for seasoned collectors is learning to accurately grade a coin and understanding the process of how a piece of metal is turned into a coin. I am not questioning your intelligence here, plenty of seasoned collectors do not fully understand the minting process either, but it does seem as though you are questioning our intelligence. You have been given good reasons why this error is not real but you do not seem to want to believe it. Me personally, I have been collecting for almost 30 years so lets just say this ain't my first rodeo  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1080 Posts |
Over time we have all seen some altered coins that are a monument to human boredom. While some may have been created to defraud coin collectors, many were made to pass the time. Another option with your coin is someone trying to defraud a vending machine (like the fellow who Obama pardoned last month who whittled cents to the size of dimes).
Because your reeding matches a dime so well, I wonder if someone actually used a dime and rolled the two coins against each other to create the reeding. (Like hammering a coin to create the effect of a double-strike.)
Sorry you don't have anything rare or collectible, but you do have a curiosity.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
958 Posts |
First it was not in circulation 50 years , its a 1960 and you said you got it in 1973
Thats 13 years.
Looks like a attempt to widdle a penny into a dime. You could them use them in phone booths,soda machines
newspaper machines. In the 60's-70's the vending machines were pretty basic and unlike today
Like someone mentioned a guy made these dimes from penneis in the military bored in his bunk passing time . He would spend um around base. Some one cuaght him and he paid a fine and did a day in military jail being he was enlisted .Never less a federal offense put a feloney on his background record
It was huanting him for years as he tried to get a job with the military later on as a contractor was denied.
He claimed he lost out on many jobs becuase he was a convicted felon.
His lawyer wrote a letter to Obama to ask for a pardon to erase his criminal background. It listed all the good things he has done for others and to further his own self.
Obama granted the pardon , now the guy has a clean criminal background and can work military contacts for the us govt or in diff branches.
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Replies: 81 / Views: 23,597 |
Posted 12/22/2010 11:45 am
