Ebay Coin Violations - Coin Community Forum

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Author	Replies: 10 / Views: 1,415
coinsnpaper Valued Member Canada 480 Posts	Posted 09/02/2006 11:58 pm I get really bothered by the number of sellers with Chinese and other non-silver Silver Dollars of many periods. I was recently given 15 different dollars from China, China/Japan, Mexico, US Trade dollar, Netherlands, France, French Indochina, US1799 Dollar,China birds over Junk, etc, and they are all- non silver, weak on the denticles, pocks around denticles, legendxs, designs. etc. They sell in China for $10 us, if possible, but you can get them there for 10 Yuan (less than a dollar) with patience. I am just as upset about the fakes of Chinese cash coins- there are new series of counterfeits now, and some are resin, coated with metal- they look like metal, but are not. The dollar people are now copying a lot of small denomination asian coins- Hong Kong and China, but also Philippines, and probably others. Check the surfaces near details. I have seen these on ebay, and some selling for a very high price. I read a good article on fake sycee- watch out there- a huge majority are fake, and most don't have any silver, no matter what they say. Report this Post to the Staff

Susanlynn9 Forum Mom United States 5877 Posts	Posted 09/04/2006 3:52 pm I have split this into its own topic since the one you posted to is so old. It's really only there to provide the links to report auctions. As far as the Chinese fakes go, it is apparently not illegal to sell them in China since they are considered "artwork". It is, however, illegal to import counterfeit US coins into the US. If reported, many of these sellers get shut down by ebay, but it is a full-time job just reporting them. Report this Post to the Staff
Morgan Fred Rest in Peace United States 2684 Posts	Posted 09/04/2006 10:04 pm coinsnpaper, as Susan pointed out, there are thousands of Asian-made counterfeits on ebay and it is indeed a full-time job to merely report them. The best an individual buyer can do is, Number One: don't bid on that junk if there is even the slightest suspicion that all is not as it is presented; and Number Two: educate one's self in the qualities of any particular series to be able to determine the differences between an authentic coin and a fake. That said, human nature being what it is with its attitude of something for nothing, counterfeits have been around since Cro-Magnon man decided a shiny round pebble was worth something. People will be defrauded if they do not know what they are doing (and it appears there are thousands of buyers who do not know what they are doing) and one can only hope they don't lose their shirts in the process. Report this Post to the Staff
Snooba Pillar of the Community Australia 1360 Posts	Posted 09/04/2006 10:35 pm quote: Originally posted by Morgan Fred one can only hope they don't lose their shirts in the process And hope that they don't become so discouraged and disgusted by it, that they lose all interest in collecting ever again! Report this Post to the Staff
Morgan Fred Rest in Peace United States 2684 Posts	Posted 09/06/2006 10:27 pm quote: Originally posted by Snooba And hope that they don't become so discouraged and disgusted by it, that they lose all interest in collecting ever again! I can definitely look at this in two ways. First, if they were dumb enough to buy such a coin without doing their homework, then they deserved to be defrauded. On the other hand, if they have any smarts about them, maybe they might have learned their lesson and approached coin purchases from an intelligent angle. Education is what it's all about and it's a serious Darwinian process. Fred Report this Post to the Staff
Metalman Pillar of the Community United States 7123 Posts	Posted 09/06/2006 11:51 pm quote: Originally posted by Morgan Fred quote: Originally posted by Snooba And hope that they don't become so discouraged and disgusted by it, that they lose all interest in collecting ever again! I can definitely look at this in two ways. First, if they were dumb enough to buy such a coin without doing their homework, then they deserved to be defrauded. On the other hand, if they have any smarts about them, maybe they might have learned their lesson and approached coin purchases from an intelligent angle. Education is what it's all about and it's a serious Darwinian process. Fred Im not sure that I would catagorize all of these folks who get taken as dumb ? although I dont think its all together wrong to view it that way . Education is something that a person has to seek out ,,especially when it comes to coins,, having spent a little time around on various forums, its incrediable the amount of mis information that is being given,, for someone to take that mis information and make what they believe to be a wise purchase , does not make them dumb, it makes them mislead,, Rick Report this Post to the Staff
Snooba Pillar of the Community Australia 1360 Posts	Posted 09/07/2006 02:32 am quote: Originally posted by Morgan Fred First, if they were dumb enough to buy such a coin without doing their homework, then they deserved to be defrauded. I am sorry, but I disagree. No-one deserves to be defrauded. Some people are foolish and leave themselves more open to being defrauded, and some people leave you feeling very little sympathy for them, but that does not mean that they deserved it. There are many naive people who out of kindness make an unwise purchase, perhaps as a gift for a friend or family member who collects. What exactly have they done to deserve being ripped off? Edited by Snooba 09/07/2006 02:57 am Report this Post to the Staff
Morgan Fred Rest in Peace United States 2684 Posts	Posted 09/08/2006 10:43 pm I gave two options. Both require education at some point. Some people can be self-seekers of a priori knowledge while others have to learn the hard way. As a f'r'instance, we all know kids who when told not to put their hands on a hot stove will not do so. We also all know kids who will not listen to others and have to find out for themselves that a hot stove will burn; it's the only way they learn. Being defrauded is a the same Darwinian process: there are those who learn before they are defrauded so they do not get defrauded in the first place; there are those who learn the first time they are defrauded not to do it again; and there are those who don't learn their lessons and are defrauded time after time. Call the last foolish, dumb, stupid, sucker, or whatever, it amounts to the same thing: they are not survivor types and they prove Darwin, Barnum, and Franklin were right. I.e., they are not deserving of survival, at least in this instance in the Coin World. IOW, "Fools rush in where angels fear to tread" (A. Pope). Report this Post to the Staff
jonlucky New Member United States 1 Posts	Posted 09/15/2006 2:19 pm I bought a colonial token from (handle) Estatedoctor on ebay for $200 and paid promptly on 09/03 - he never delivered the item - he pretends he is not there - I googled him and discovered that the internet is riddled with evidence of rip offs and fraud committed by this entity (there is more than one behind this) - don't buy anything from that handle. I tried to look at his feedback before I bought but was unable to - he has a lot of bad and neutral feedback which somewhow he is able to hide. Here you can see some that go as far as May. http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cach...t=clnk&cd=20 I am taking it to my contact at the FBI. I know just where to go too. The same agent who worked on the case of the last guy who ripped me off on ebay. That criminal is now serving 15 years for Art fraud (his 4th time in jail) - many other victims like here. ebay itself seems completely uncontactable. But do not buy from estatedoctor. Report this Post to the Staff
Metalman Pillar of the Community United States 7123 Posts	Posted 09/15/2006 2:45 pm Hi jonlucky Unfortunately all I can do is express my agreement with your post, estatedoctor is a well known and avoided seller for the very reasons that you have listed Rick Report this Post to the Staff
Morgan Fred Rest in Peace United States 2684 Posts	Posted 09/15/2006 3:29 pm jonlucky, welcome to the forum! You will find us a friendly group with an incredible amount of collective knowledge and, in this instance, sympathetic listeners. Estatedocter is the Number One target of the ANA and may be the most notorious fraudster among coin sellers. You will find considerable information on him on this and virtually all other forums. As you found on a Google search, he is notorious throughout the world of coin auctions. He and his wife have been doing this for quite a few years, have been suspended from ebay a number of times, but keep coming back. While a number of Georgia and Federal Agencies have been contacted and have done some investigation, they usually have bigger fish to fry, so the couple have gotten away with it so far. I am curious: how did you happen to bid on one of his auctions? If your contact at the FBI is unable to do anything, please feel free to contact COINAF (see below signature). Fred Report this Post to the Staff
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