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 Replies: 12 / Views: 37,981 |
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New Member
United States
49 Posts |
Hey, So, last night I was playing around with a broken camera lens. First off, I found it they make GREAT magnifying classes for viewing coins (put the large end of the lens up to your eye), secondly, while viewing the rim of one of my pennies (which wasn't one I was collecting, just took it out of my change jar) and I see the initials "VDB". What does this mean? It's obviously not the same VDB from the turn of the century, but who is it then? Are they tributes by the mint? Are they valuable? Note, I know next to nothing about VDB coins, besides the fact that the 1909 VDB penny is really rare. Photo of one of the pennies (taken using a reversed 18-55mm Canon lens on the 350D, if anyone's interest).  Thanks, Phil Edited by
01/27/2011 10:10 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4989 Posts |
The initials VDB are for Victor David Brenner who designed the obverse of the Lincoln Penny. They were removed in 1909 but re-added, in a different location, in 1918 where they have remained ever since. |
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New Member
 United States
49 Posts |
Oooh, thanks  . Why do certain pennies not have the initials though? For example, there's none on this 1979 Lincoln I'm looking at. Confused  EDIT - Thanks a million Bobby! Edited by PhilG
01/27/2011 10:37 am
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12437 Posts |
Quote:
It's obviously not the same VDB from the turn of the century Sure it is, what has changed on the obverse besides the date? It is still the same basic original design and still credited to Victor David Brenner. Every Lincoln Cent minted since 1918 has had the VDB in the same location. If the initials are missing, they have probably worn off or are clogged with gunk since the intials are incuse. The VDB is part of the master die design so it is impossible for it to be left off the coin. Also, there is absolutely nothing really rare about any 1909 VDB and that includes the 1909S VDB. the 1909P VDB had a mintage of almost 28 million and can be found in circulated condition for a few dollars and uncirculated examples for under $50. The 1909S VDB may be a $1000+ coin but is certainly not rare with a mintage of 484,000. Go to any regional coin show and you will literally find DOZENS of them for sale, the survival rate is fairly high compared to most other coins with a similar mintage. The main reason for value is demand- the 1909S VDB is the pinnacle of Lincoln Cent collecting so everybody wants one and there is constant demand for the coin which keeps prices high. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4000 Posts |
Bio said it best as usual. As far as the 1979 cent, the missing initials are most likely missing due to die polishing or possibly a worn die, but we would need to see it to be sure. I guess there's a chance they could have forgotten to put them in there, but I have not heard of this happening so far. But, then again, I'm kinda new at this, too. Can you get us a pic? |
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New Member
United States
49 Posts |
I can tell you it's not wear. There aren't any scratches on the coin, the initials just aren't there. I'd upload a photo, but it's a big darn hassle since I broke my card reader  . It seems pretty 50/50 for the pennies to have the initials. Strange. Edited by PhilG
01/27/2011 12:07 pm
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New Member
United States
49 Posts |
Quote:Sure it is, what has changed on the obverse besides the date? It is still the same basic original design and still credited to Victor David Brenner. Every Lincoln Cent minted since 1918 has had the VDB in the same location. If the initials are missing, they have probably worn off or are clogged with gunk since the intials are incuse. The VDB is part of the master die design so it is impossible for it to be left off the coin. Also, there is absolutely nothing really rare about any 1909 VDB and that includes the 1909S VDB. the 1909P VDB had a mintage of almost 28 million and can be found in circulated condition for a few dollars and uncirculated examples for under $50. The 1909S VDB may be a $1000+ coin but is certainly not rare with a mintage of 484,000. Go to any regional coin show and you will literally find DOZENS of them for sale, the survival rate is fairly high compared to most other coins with a similar mintage. The main reason for value is demand- the 1909S VDB is the pinnacle of Lincoln Cent collecting so everybody wants one and there is constant demand for the coin which keeps prices high. Interesting point, though I meant the man himself  . |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7629 Posts |
In a number of different years the mint used the dies until they were worn out. The design near the rim is the first to lose definition, and often the VDB initials go early. Your 1979 is likely a case of this. There is no way they could have "forgotten" to put the initials on any coin or die. There is but one master design for any particular issue, and each die in that issue carries the exact same design elements. To change this to English - if the VDB exists on ONE 1979 cent, it HAS to exist on ALL 1979 cents by nature of how the dies are made. About the initials - they were initially placed on the reverse between the wheat stems on 1909 cents, but this production ran only two days before the mint decided that wasn't a great idea. They removed the initials altogether and continued making coins. 1918 rolled around, and the initials were placed back on the Lincoln Cent at the bottom of the shoulder. They have been there ever since. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
809 Posts |
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New Member
United States
49 Posts |
I'll post a pic later.. Really confused.
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Valued Member
United States
134 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1256 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7629 Posts |
All of the "no VDB" cents are hype - scams. ALL Lincoln cents minted after 1917 have the VDB under the shoulder. ANY Lincoln Cent not clearly showing the VDB initials likely was struck with an obverse die suffering from extreme die wear, which tends to abrade away details. This does NOT add value to the coin. Again, there is NO way a Lincoln Cent could be struck from dies where they "forgot" to include the initials. |
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Replies: 12 / Views: 37,981 |
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Posted 01/27/2011 10:36 am
