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1921 Peace Dollar

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Pillar of the Community

United States
1315 Posts
 Posted 02/02/2011  4:45 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Doucet to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Can anyone let me know what caused the small blob of metal on the rim of this coin left of ONE? thanks

1921-Peace-Dollar
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fioti's Avatar
United States
4212 Posts
 Posted 02/02/2011  6:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add fioti to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm guessing, small rim Cud?
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aladinslamp's Avatar
United States
3076 Posts
 Posted 02/03/2011  01:05 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add aladinslamp to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
interesting coin and thought...if it were on the obverse I could see it as an explination...however on the reverse ? as almost all Cuds I have seen are always on the Obverse...It's something to chew on...
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 Posted 02/04/2011  10:25 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add zeewool to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
A question...... A question having nothing to do with grading or attribution, therefore no money or value involved.... so, evidently not worth answering, even with an opinion? Where have all of the teachers gone?

Here is an opinion Doucet.... from another thread:


Quote:
The collar does not cut into the planchet, but the planchet seeps into the collar... A side effect of the planchet rim is that of lessened rate of displacement of the planchet metal into the collar crevices... This is because while the downward force of the upper die causes planchet displacement into the die devices of both dies (caused by the two fields closing), the planchet rim is not affected by this... it is forced horizontally into the collar as a secondary effect of the vertical momentum of the die closure, and the effect is lessened by the shape of the upset planchet edge.

The die rim (on each die) sits at a level on the die neck that is slightly below field level.... While die fields may clash, the a clash of the rims is physically impossible... they, (as the devices) are lower than the die field.

While the convex shape of the dies causes less striking pressure at the outer devices than the main ones, the rims are outside of the die field, so the planchet rims do not always even displace vertically to the die rims, because the planchet displacement that occurs outside of the die field is in a horizontal direction toward the collar... when the collar fills with metal, then additional metal is forced vertically toward the die rims.... depending upon the upsetting of the planchet, the rims may not completely fill.... but that is not really noticeable as the rim is already on the planchet.

I think that what is looked upon as extra metal on top of a coin rim is actually only the partial effect of complete metal displacement.

Neither planchets or die set ups were perfect, and a little wiggle room is necessary.


What was attempted to be said here was that if there is no associated die crack, the cause may have been insufficient rim upsetting of the planchet or incomplete metal displacement as the coin was struck.
Pillar of the Community
United States
1315 Posts
 Posted 02/04/2011  4:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Doucet to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
All things come to those who wait.
Thanks. I read the above quote very carefully and it explains pretty well how the rim of a coin is formed or malformed. It makes sense that this is probably what happened on this coin as I do not see any obvious die break.
Coincidentally, the obverse of this dollar shows a lot of Machine Doubling on the date, motto and initials. I wonder if the two have any thing to do with each other?

One other odd thing is that on the obverse side the pcgs holder has a small crescent shaped splinter chipped out of its rim right opposite the malformed area of the reverse like they might of had to force it in a little?

Thanks for your response.
Maybe I should have posted in the error pages. I'm not real familiar at knowing the difference between errors and vams.


1921-Peace-Dollar
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3660 Posts
 Posted 02/04/2011  6:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add zeewool to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I really do like the way that you think Doucet, and what you are thinking about too..... I think that you may be onto something with the possible connection between planchet diameter/rim upsetting and Strike Doubling.

If there was a need to force the coin into the holder, it was not because of the coin's diameter, (the collar would not allow an over sized coin), so the problem would be with the TPG's bezel.
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Morgans Dad's Avatar
United States
5622 Posts
 Posted 02/04/2011  11:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Morgans Dad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Welcome Doucet to this family, I hope all your questions, you will ask here and there are plenty of experienced, kind, willing people ready to assist your Numismatic questions, good luck, Mike...PS, HELLO Zee, Welcome to this arena after your vacation, LOL.
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