Cleaned Crowns? Whats Your Opinion ?

Thanks for your reply markn.I have been researching this matter further.Here are some examples for the members to consider, I'm confused, but not deterred.

A beautiful Naturally toned and Uncleaned coin.
http://cars.ebay.com.au/1938-CROWN-...wItemQQitemZ330456848966

Ms 63 Pcgs.
http://www.wacoins.com.au/1938-crow...e-grade-rare

*Note in both examples the coins are free from any (Halo effect) or un-natural dulling, which can or may indictate past cleaning/s, from what I have read.

The toned example relates more to what I think, you have referred to as, colouration.

During cleaning the patina,lustre and/or naturally occuring toning is removed,it is harder to remove from the protected areas such as around the legend and some remains.
Again from what I have read?.

Are there any sites our links that explain cleaning and how to detect etc, sure would be handy.

I have only used links as I can't post pictures yet.The links have been selected for content only and carry no endorsement of my comments...Don,t wish to offend anybody by using their links.

My last 37 crown was heavily cleaned and I wish to avoid especially with the value and pricing of a 38 crown.

I'd suggest that any coin seller who doesn't disclose a cleaning he or she is aware of isn't a seller I'd like to deal with too often. That being said, the seller you've highlighted here is active on some other forums I frequent and seems quite personable. Perhaps you could ask them if they believe the coins are cleaned? Also ask them what their return policy is.

As to the discolouration it might be an artifact of the scanning process. Those protected areas on circulated coins can often have remaining lustre while the unprotected areas do not, scanning can often show up this difference in reflectivity quite deceptively.

The core of your issue comes from wanting a non cleaned coin. It's not possible, one way or another, to say that that those examples you've shown are cleaned or not. So either buy with a firm return policy in place, buy a raw example you can hold in your hand to examine (assuming you can pick a cleaned coin), or go for a slabbed example from one of the reputable TPG's (PCGS, NGC, or ANACS). They generally will not grade harshly cleaned coins and if they do it's usually noted on the holder. Of course you'll almost certainly pay more for a slabbed coin that a raw one, but that's the price you pay for certainty.

If you want a dealer who I would stake my life on will not knowingly sell a raw cleaned coin without disclosing it fully then I'd recommend Stuart Andersen Coins in Melbourne (http://www.stuartandersen.com.au/). Drop them an email and let them know what you want and I am sure they'll do their best to look after you. DISCLAIMER: I am not associated with them in any way, other than being very good friends with their chief numismatist who is as honest as the day is long.

Scans are problematic at best. They don't show lustre properly and can really hide bag marks. I make it a general policy to not buy from scans. With regard to slabbed and graded coins while I am an advocate I am by no means a fanatic. If I can view coins in hand then I buy far more raw coins than TPG graded coins, the ratio would easily be 20 to 1. However when buying coins online the majority are TPG graded. It's really hard grading from images, and from some images simply impossible.

Hi Peter and thanks for the welcome.

Counterfeits and forgeries have certainly been around since Adam was a boy LoL.
I have seen in recent times the influx of Chinese crowns and Centenary florins,pretty impressive at a passing glance but fail dismally upon closer inspection.

The Manders florins are somewhat more impressive IMO and the cast lead florins are rather crude yet both now, are higly collectable.

This aspect of collecting certainly holds a personal interest and a valid position within numismatics,IMO with regards to the history of Australian coinage and scallywags.LOL