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 Replies: 11 / Views: 3,748 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2408 Posts |
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Valued Member
423 Posts |
Very clear. My two coins (wolf and geese) both show the same issues you have documented. I suggest you directly email the RCM with the three pictures you have posted and ask what is up and if they plan to correct the problem or not. Do not assume the RCM checks the internet for quality control issues. They may appreciate the constructive criticism. This would be telling. They may not care. This would also be telling. |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
2408 Posts |
Honestly penny, my emails going to the Mint are picked up by their spam filter. If not they are generally tossed.
It's funny because there was once a member on this forum who actually said that I was surely getting kickbacks from the Mint for posting about NCLT.
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Valued Member
423 Posts |
C_C: You have documented a trend of lower quality in regards to frosting on RCM coins. Granted, the sample size may be small, but I think a picture is starting to emerge clearly. Right now, I think it is fair to say that RCM quality is going down hill (in regards to frosting, and maybe other areas as well) and anyone saying it would be correct; especially if they referenced your thread. (Some people would say the RCM sucks without anything to back up their statement just because they don't like the RCM in general, but with a specific reason it is a different matter and not just sour grapes). Now if someone wants to go one step further and say the RCM quality is going down hill AND the RCM doesn't care - more proof will be required. Right now though, everyone will have to stop at the AND. The RCM is large and customer service, quality control, marketing etc are all different departments that don't know one another exist. They are their own separate worlds. If you don't email them (you may be too busy/think it not worth your time etc... no worries) and expect them to find a post on the internet I don't think it is a fair setup. Official direct correspondence is only fair. If you do directly email the RCM and tell them about the issues and they don't respond/just delete your email then I think the doesn't care part is true in general (sometimes employees don't do their job properly though). I am curious if they do respond will the RCM acknowledge the problem and correct it (then people can NOT say they don't care) or if they will brush it off or say that's the way it is from now (then people can say they don't care). For perspective though: In hand both coins are very nice though. Some detail is lost as shown in the picture by C_C. The reviews for the coins are very positive. I think the coin is great and the design and artwork is high end. A little lighter on the frost would let more details come though like the artist intended. Edited by realpenny
02/15/2011 11:31 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2408 Posts |
I hear you penny. I know some at the Mint - not personally but enough to respect their work. I think technology can enhance the message but sometimes it may not. Like bad laser etching or heavy frosting for instance.
I am in sync with the artist behind the coin and spend the time to understand the message. The technology and the innovations are part of me since I was a child... and these feelings are nourished by what the Mint produces. Pushing the envelop is part of their mandate and I understand and welcome that... But I am just one of a few 10,000 NCLT regular collectors that want continuity also.
These coins are NOT a step in the right direction.
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Valued Member
423 Posts |
Sorry C_C: I added the for perspective part to make things more clear to others and you posted. Here it is again.
For perspective though: In hand both coins are very nice though. Some detail is lost as shown in the picture by C_C. The reviews for the coins are very positive. I think the coin is great and the design and artwork is high end. A little lighter on the frost would let more details come though like the artist intended.
We are looking at things under magnification. I think we are very picky. I think both coins are great and are a recommended buy. I wish the process was toned down a bit, but I think anyone buying these coins will enjoy them. Who knows maybe the mint got feedback saying customers wanted heavier toning... wouldn't that be funny! :P
Edited by realpenny
02/15/2011 11:42 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2408 Posts |
Penny, I agree with what you stated regarding the artwork, and the reviews are certainly positive.
This is my point though; the artist rendition is sabotaged by a bad technique and it must be corrected. This is worse than gold plating, enamel or hologram because it deteriorates the very essence of the coin: the imprint of the die.
Compared to all proof coins ever released in the entire history of Canadian numismatics, those are the worst ever produced in terms of quality and that's a sad reality.
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Bedrock of the Community
Australia
21788 Posts |
I suspect that the RCM has misread the collector market. They have wrongly perceived that ultra cameo coins must have the detail in strong contrast to the polished mirror fields. Sure, a lot of collectors do like polished mirror fields, but it quite obvious from this thread and similar ones, that the cameo effect is way overdone to the extent of obliteration of detail, and those of us in the CCF do not like it. The RCM had better listen to us! |
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Valued Member
423 Posts |
That is a interesting point sel_69l. Thanks for bringing it up. I could see some people attracted to high contrast coins. To achieve a high contrast would come with a cost - a reduction in detail. I suppose if you like looking at coins in hand the high contrast wouldn't seem too bad. If you like looking at coins under magnification, on the other hand, high contrast coins cost detail and it is noticeable as you lose artistic details as shown by C_C. (To me personally artist detail is very important - it is why I collect the coins - it is for the artwork). I hope C_C asks the RCM about this issue. I would like to hear their reply as to why they are doing this. Is the RCM doing this because in polling customers people wanted high contrast coins? Or is it because the laser etching process is not as fine as the old process? etc... |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1502 Posts |
New member signing in! The high-contrast argument doesn't make much sense though. The frosting should be finer to achieve a better contrast against the mirror finish. Coarse frosting would only increase contrast of the frosting grains with the grains themselves, and become less of a contrast against the mirror finish. I think too much credit is given to RCM. This 2011 frosting is bad form. |
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Bedrock of the Community
Australia
21788 Posts |
The British Royal Mint had it about just right when it comes to cameo frosting. Their dies for the gold 1937 proof 5,2,1, and 1/2 pound coins have a very much finer frosting than seen here. The frosting is either acid etched or sand blasted on the details of the die, but in the British case, they simply did a much better job, because the details were not degraded with the sand blasting or acid etching. Surely if a proof die is to be produced, ALL of the details of the design need to be shown to best effect, with NO detail lost. In my opinion, the Royal Australian Mint has severely damaged their proof dies as well, to enhance the cameo effect. It does not look good to my eye. Edited by sel_69l
06/04/2011 03:43 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2408 Posts |
Most are in agreement with the observation that the heavy frosting is a problem. Yet, I have not received any feedback from the Mint whatsoever. Completely ignored. That's fine. I think that while they do not acknowledge it, this technique serves manufacturing purposes in reducing costs. It extends the life of the die, since you don't have to replace them as often as they wear out. All the details are blurred away - so who can tell the difference? Also, the frosting covers other production defects, nicks, pits, scratches, etc. As for the "heavier contrast" theory, perhaps it is. But a smoother frost is as effective, and brings all relief and shades to provide a better cameo overall I think.  |
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Replies: 11 / Views: 3,748 |
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Posted 02/15/2011 9:40 pm
