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Reale? Medal? What Is It | Proclamation Coin

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New Member

United States
3 Posts
 Posted 03/06/2011  11:40 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add danbou to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
A coin/medal that has been in my fathers collection for as long as I remember has come into my possession. Any help in identifying it is appreciated. Size 26.8mm, 6.6 gms.

Side one. 2 columns flanking a shield with crown. Along the rim is "Fernando VII . Rei De Espana . Y De Las Indias."

Side 2 Has a wreath around. "Por El Alferez . are D. Felipe Ordonez Diaz". The top along the edge has a flower followed by "Proclamando Enla Ciudad Oaxaca A 1808"

My gut feeling is this is a fractional coin perhaps a 2 bit during the reign of Ferdinand VII before the revolution. Or a proclamation medal. But I'm not sure. Nor have I figured out who the referenced Felipe Ordonez Diaz was.

Any help in identifying this item is appreciated

For some reason photos of the coin aren't uploading. I may have the wrong format. I will study this more and try to upload them later.

Again. Thanks for your time.

Identified - moved to Exonumia forum - Sap
New Member
United States
3 Posts
 Posted 03/06/2011  12:00 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add danbou to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Photos of the coin in question.

Reale?-Medal?-What-Is-It-|-Proclamation-Coin

Reale?-Medal?-What-Is-It-|-Proclamation-Coin
Valued Member
Guatemala
357 Posts
 Posted 03/06/2011  1:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JMerrick to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It appears to be a medal. The inscription says "For the Ensign" *R* "D(on)Felipe Ordonez Diaz" Proclaimed in the City of Oaxaca in 1808".

I'm not sure what the single letter *R* stands for. Nor can I find any reference to a Felipe Ordonez. The name 'Diaz' would be a matronymic.

Under Spanish colonial rule, an ensign was a junior military officer, under the rank of Lt., who was responsible for bearing the King's (or Queen's) 'colors'.

I'm afraid I can't give you more to work with at the moment. If you happen to remember, remind me on here in July or so, because I'll be heading up to Chiapas, and possibly Oaxaca for a few days, and could probably look up his name then.
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Sap's Avatar
Australia
16829 Posts
 Posted 03/06/2011  5:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It's a "proclamation coin". Proclamation coins are a peculiarly Spanish phenomenon, and fall somewhere in between "coins", "tokens" and "medals".

They are not really coins because they were not officially issued by the government; you won't find them listed in coin catalogues. They aren't really tokens because they weren't specifically designed for use as money. And they're not really medals becuase in spite of the previous two statements, they were often struck at official mints on planchets that were the same size and weight as actual coins, and they circulated as such once they were issued.

In the days before mass-media, important events were "proclaimed" in a public place - imagine the old-fashioned "town crier". For very important events, such as the coronation of a new king or declaration of independence, these proclamations were large formal occasions in the city square. It is at these large gatherings that our "proclamation pieces" found their use.

They were commissioned by local landowners, city officials or anyone else who was wealthy enough to sponsor their production. Whoever it was usually had their names placed on the pieces too, to make sure everyone knew who to thank for their generosity (and maybe so that word of their enthusiastic support for whatever was being proclaimed would spread to the central government). The pieces would then be given out to those present at the proclamation, perhaps in a formal and civilized way or perhaps in the old-fashioned Roman way of distributing largesse by tossing handfuls of them out into the crowd.

Once people got their coin-like medal, they were then of course free to spend it, keep it or do whatever they liked with it. Since they were usually identical to coins in every way that mattered except for their design, many were spent. They would circulate side-by-side with official coins, as de-facto circulating commemoratives.

In this case, the event being proclaimed was Ferdinand VII becoming king in 1808. Given its size, it may have seen circulation as a 2 reales.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
New Member
United States
3 Posts
 Posted 03/06/2011  7:22 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add danbou to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Interesting. If my understand this correct. Ferdinand rose to the throne in March 1808 after his father abdicated. Ferdinand himself was forced to abdicate in May 1808 due to Napoleon; who wanted his brother Joseph Bonaparte king. The Spanish people and the colonies resisted Joseph resulting in the peninsula war. Ferdinand was then returned to the throne in 1813.

I was thinking it was money due to the Pillars and shield. But the opposite side. The text doesn't quite line up and seemed like it was done quickly.

But if it was used as a gift at the proclamation. The text on the back not lining up would make sense. If it was was at the proclamation it would have been during his brief 2-3 month first period as king. And Felipe Ordonez would be the one commissioning the minting.

Thanks to both of you.
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Veton's Avatar
Spain
108 Posts
 Posted 02/12/2015  04:13 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Veton to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I update this interesting post. with Sap.

In Spanish America, municipality administration was carried out by the "CABILDO"(or CONCEJO); usually, a city as Oaxaca had 8 members in its city council, the first of these members was appointed as REGIDOR AND ALFEREZ REAL (equivalent to mayor).

Felipe Ordoñez Díaz was appointed "Regidor" and Alferez Real (ALFEREZ R.) of Oaxaca on may 8, 1789.

I dont know when he finished as "Regidor", but obviously he was still in 1808.

v.

Edited by Veton
02/12/2015 09:36 am
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